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What is the best value second hand M lens ? - 35mm M Summaron, Summicron or Summarit


Rokkor

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1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

I think if prices had been much higher, and marketed accordingly (compact, low flare, no focus shift, superb optically and ergonomically... albeit with the improved hood and no rubber ring), they might have been extremely popular as a Summicron alternative. 

In all seriousness, I'm not so sure raising the Summarit prices would have served Leica well.  Take the 50mm Summicron vs . 50mm Summarit, for example   The current 50mm Summicron is $2695 at the post-tariff price, it was lower when the Summarit was introduced. The 50mm Summarit was $1995.  Raising the price of the Summarit would have either made the decision to go with the 'better' Summicron even easier given the price similarity, or could have possibly cannibalized  Summicron sales if the higher Summarit price gave buyers the impression that the Summarit was just as good (or maybe better) than the Summicron. 

Now, dropping the price into the low $1000 range might have pushed Voigtlander/Zeiss buyers looking for lower cost M mount lenses into the Summarit line, for a 'real' Leica 'Made in Germany' lens.  That might have been a success story, at the risk of cheapening the Leica brand.  

All water under the bridge now, however.  

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26 minutes ago, logan2z said:

In all seriousness, I'm not so sure raising the Summarit prices would have served Leica well.  Take the 50mm Summicron vs . 50mm Summarit, for example   The current 50mm Summicron is $2695 at the post-tariff price, it was lower when the Summarit was introduced. The 50mm Summarit was $1995.  Raising the price of the Summarit would have either made the decision to go with the 'better' Summicron even easier given the price similarity, or could have possibly cannibalized  Summicron sales if the higher Summarit price gave buyers the impression that the Summarit was just as good (or maybe better) than the Summicron. 

Now, dropping the price into the low $1000 range might have pushed Voigtlander/Zeiss buyers looking for lower cost M mount lenses into the Summarit line, for a 'real' Leica 'Made in Germany' lens.  That might have been a success story, at the risk of cheapening the Leica brand.  

All water under the bridge now, however.  

If Leica can simultaneously and successfully sell a $9k 50 Summicron-M APO M, I’m not sure common logic applies.  There seems to be Leica buyers at all levels when performance warrants and marketing corresponds.  The standard 50 Summicron is an old design and probably could have withstood a refresh and modest bump in price.  And I wouldn’t be surprised at a super expensive new 35mm M lens at some point. But who knew years ago (given product planning requirements) that the industry would nosedive and that a pandemic would hit.  I’m glad I don’t have to make these decisions.

Jeff

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It is hard to tell whether the Summarits would have been more successful if they had been higher or lower priced. I guess for younger folks a competitive price with Voigtländer or Zeiss might have allowed a younger crowd to get into the system.

in general I hope Leica can find a way to stay competitive and I guess the L alliance approach is a good way synergising with other companies so you can combine lenses and bodies of Leica, Sigma and Panasonic.

It would be great if Leica will also in the future have customers in mind that appreciate the quality of the optics and the cameras and enjoy photography. It would be a shame if the brand would be drifting into a status luxury niche.

The Q is a nice example how to offer high quality items at a still steep but competitive price. The Panaleicas are debatable of course but still nice to see that you can get an entry into Leica if you are on a budget for whatever reason. This can be because you just do not want to spend more or because you cannot - which is just different but with the same result.

As it was mentioned, I would not mind a Portugal made lens. As this is produced in Europe you could still assume fair Labor conditions compared to other countries in the world.

If there would be a modular and upgradable M approach this might also help justifying the investment for a digital body better (i.e. sensor / processor upgrade). For analog Leicas this was very convincing and it is great to see Leica still repairs very old cameras for all photo enthusiasts out there. Very unique and sustainable! 

Coming back to the original topic, I would appreciate Summarits coming back. They seem to what I read excellent lenses. And this is what should count and not what was on their price tag.

Somehow I am also biased a bit towards a Leica lens, although in the end the photos that we take depend on do many other factors and the lens is only one element - but and important one of course.

 

 

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I have and use a 35mm corn v3 that has been a very nice lens. Small, sharp, f2, and well made. Can’t really ask for much more. Flares a bit as per usual with that era, but the size and ergonomics make up for any shortfalls.  I priorities being able to carry a camera anywhere easily though

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On 10/27/2020 at 5:57 AM, Rokkor said:

Thanks for this hint. Very helpful. Do you have a personal comparison to the Summicron?

I found this article to be very helpful although it’s comparing a Summarit 2.5 to a Summicron asph v1. 
https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2018/06/11/the-leica-35mm-summicron-asph-vs-the-summarit-2-5-which-did-i-keep/
I came to the same conclusion as the author and decided to keep the Summicron.
The Summarit however will give you the best bang for your buck.
(BYW, my Summarit 35/2.5 is on the market if you’re interested)

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  • 1 month later...

It seems most people here suggest the Summarit, but honestly I’d suggest giving the Summaron a try if you find a mint copy. They are also going up in price whereas Summarit aren’t (the Summicron V1 or V4 both will be definitely too expensive to be considered a budget option, otherwise they are lovely lens that offer a rendering no modern Leica lens offers, the V1 is actually my favorite 35mm that Leica has released). 

Summarits are great but I never quite enjoyed the super short focus throw or their design (2.5 look lovely and use e39 filters but the 2.4 design is just ugly and uses a different filter size). The other thing is that Summarits only focus down to 0.8m whereas Summaron / Summicron go down to 0.7 (or even 0.6 on the ones that have Goggles - these are even cheaper too!). It may sound like 10cm is not a lot but with a 35mm it actually makes a big difference. 

My recommendation overall would be a Summaron 35mm f2.8, you can still find a lot of these in mint condition for a reasonable-ish price. 

Edited by shirubadanieru
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On 10/27/2020 at 1:54 PM, Jeff S said:

The Leica Miami guys (Red Dot Forum) are putting together a petition to send to Leica to revive the M Summarit line.  
 

Jeff

Please form a single file line, starting directly behind me (with the obligatory six foot social distancing between signatories, of course 😎).

Edited by Herr Barnack
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Highly recommend the 35mm 2.5 for much the same reason as others put forward, but primarily for its handling. The 2.4 is abit more cumbersome as its larger and imho leica decided to focus on streamlining production costs than for consumer benifit 'form follows function' bauhaus aesthetic. 

But actually i would recommend the 35 ultron 1.7ltm more for best value/ performance as it has the combination of modern sharpness and classic rendering but reasonable price since its been overshadowed by the m mount version. Besides the summicron it has imho the best compact form factor and aesthetic design. Stopped down at middle distances its stunning.

All the best

Edited by cboy
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