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There are no computers that "just work" or "just won't work". All of them fail at something or other, different operating systems simply fail at different things. The case in point being that most hardware manufacturers simply fail to provide drivers for Linux, even though those are usually structurally the simplest.

Interesting to hear that 'Linux just works'. This thread simply tells me that Windows 10 just works, Linux doesn't. But what the hell, let's all blame Leica. 

M-240 does with multi function grip.

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3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Post some images taken with your Miele please, preferably using a Noctiwash...🙄
I have a Digilux2 still running fine, as do most M8 cameras, I wonder what evidence you have that Leica circuit boards don't last, even if they have to be miniaturized compared to washing machines...

Would Persil work?  The point is that good circuit boards can be.  And in Germany, too.  I had contact years ago with a German software and hardware house and those folks were sharp.  We were on a joint project that they were thinking of porting to their hardware.  They preferred the SF Bay Area weather to der Heimat.  

And I do not expect the Leica to do my socks.  Nor the Miele to take photos.  That's absurd.  

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3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I know. By what factory in China are the Miele circuit boards made?

What a distraction.  I wouldn't care if they made them in East Jesus, Ohio if they worked.  And they do work.  That's the point.

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3 minutes ago, boojum said:

And I do not expect the Leica to do my socks.  Nor the Miele to take photos.  That's absurd.  

Quite - that is why I reacted to your Miele post - you clearly do.

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Just now, jaapv said:

Quite - that is why I reacted to your Miele post - you clearly do.

Nein, nein, nein.  Hundertzeit nein.  The point was, and you know it, is that it is easy to make reliable electronics. And not  just Miele or high-end ReVox.  That little SONY just rolls along.  The other electronic gear the same.  And I'd better stop with the German as you might start thinking I can speak it still. 

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb boojum:

As for "1." hot plugging is not a good strategy. 

Yes, it is, with USB. In this case, I was thinking of a fast computer overrunning a peripheral which was slow to initialize all its internal devices. 

We don't have Bunte Teller or Tree Cakes in the part of Switzerland where I live. Other regions might know them. We have switched to LED "candles" a long time ago, but even among those you find dimmer ones.

And this: I use Ubuntu for practically everything. One day, however, I bought a device which absolutely refused to work with Linux. When I thought it didn't matter because I still had an Epson scanner which used to work just fine with Linux, I found out that this was a thing of the past and even the newly released drivers for Linux failed to work in the latest Ubuntu release.

Seeing that Wndows laptops with reasonable amounts of RAM and even with sufficiently large SSD could be had for 260 Swiss francs, I decided that my time was worth more than that and now I am the indifferent owner of an HP laptop with Windows 10. It greatly boosts my morale, particularly when I am done using it for the nonce and can return to my well working Ubuntu computers.

What's CHF 260 (or so many USD)? That does not even buy you a Noctilux lens hood.

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7 minutes ago, boojum said:

Nein, nein, nein.  Hundertzeit nein.  The point was, and you know it, is that it is easy to make reliable electronics. And not  just Miele or high-end ReVox.  That little SONY just rolls along.  The other electronic gear the same.  And I'd better stop with the German as you might start thinking I can speak it still. 

And what makes you think that there is any circuit board defect in your M8 when you have a communication problem using one specific operating system?

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vor 36 Minuten schrieb boojum:

Back in the dim recesses of my past there is a career of writing software. 

Same here. After a short while they had me stop writing code and made me a supervisor of the QC team. Heavenly! At last, all software defects were made by other people and not by me!

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2 minutes ago, pop said:

What's CHF 260 (or so many USD)? That does not even buy you a Noctilux lens hood.

I guess you have the Chromebooks, too.  Great machines and they start at ~US$250.  Back in the late 80's Larry Ellison was saying he could make a dumb terminal for US$1500.  Leica has some pretty funny ideas about what their gear is worth.  I just bought an Olympus VF2 for US$140.  For another US$100 I could have bought one that had Leica on it rather than Olympus and they are the same.  That's shameless.

But, as I said, I have bought three Leicas this month so I surely do like them.  I am disappointed at their weaknesses, though.   I expect more from them.  First on the basis of their reputation for quality.  Und auch weil Oma immer sagtetet, "Es ist immer Deutscher besser."  She said it as a factual matter, not boasting.  Made great Königsberger Klopsen, too. 

All this German bouncing around brings up the old memories of Oma and Opa.  They came out from Berlin in January of 1912, newly married.  He had done his time for the Kaiser already so he was not fleeing conscription. Ach du Lieber.   ;o)

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10 minutes ago, jaapv said:

And what makes you think that there is any circuit board defect in your M8 when you have a communication problem using one specific operating system?

I am not sure what the problem is with the M8.2.  I will try to shoot that bug.  But following threads on this forum make it clear that there have been board problems.  And sensor problems.  And do not blame Kodak.  Leica spec'ed the sensors.  Leica QC'ed the sensors.  Those faulty sensors are Leica's responsibility. Yes, I know they made good on them for as long as they could.  But you cannot point to the M8 project as something well executed.  It is a lovely camera. It has great colors.  But it is also on shaky ground for support.  

There is a company out here which sells sporting goods under their own label.  Their guarantee is that if you are unhappy with their product at any time return it for full refund or replacement. Yes, boots are simpler than cameras but if they are not made right the company will be eating a lot of boots.  LL Bean stands behind what they sell. Leica could have handled the sensor problem better.  I know, I know, this is an imperfect world.  And the old mechanical Leicas are durable.  I just wish Leica had kept that as a design goal when they entered digital photography.  So many other companies did better. 

I will live with the situation as it is.  I have no choice.  But it is disappointing to read about the problems in electronics, is it not?

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I think I follow the forum well. I cannot say that I recall a significant number of board problems on the M8. And our Miele had a circuit board replaced at five years of age. Most problems have been mechanical with M9 sensors, and we all know that those are designed to, possibly slightly beyond, the technical limit. There are very few faulty M8 sensors.

As to companies that did better? At least Leica has support for their cameras for at least ten years - and apart from a couple of failures by circumstances beyond their control, they do pretty well. Even the M8 is mostly supported, apart from sensor and LCD. I could not get a six year old Macbook repaired by Apple when the trackpad failed. Apple stops support at five years - and so do most camera makers.

Just to put things into perspective, the electronic hard- and software designs for the M8 and M9 were not by Leica - they subcontracted to Jenoptik. I'm sure that you know the company.

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Gerade eben schrieb LocalHero1953:

Interesting to hear that 'Linux just works'. This thread simply tells me that Windows 10 just works, Linux doesn't. But what the hell, let's all blame Leica. 

There are no computers that "just work" or "just won't work". All of them fail at something or other, different operating systems simply fail at different things. The case in point being that most hardware manufacturers simply fail to provide drivers for Linux, even though those are usually structurally the simplest.

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11 minutes ago, pop said:

There are no computers that "just work" or "just won't work". All of them fail at something or other, different operating systems simply fail at different things. The case in point being that most hardware manufacturers simply fail to provide drivers for Linux, even though those are usually structurally the simplest.

Which can be explained by most hardware being aimed at the consumer market, and Linux has a penetration of close to zero there.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb boojum:

Back in the late 80's Larry Ellison was saying he could make a dumb terminal for US$1500.  Leica has some pretty funny ideas about what their gear is worth.

My 150$ phone runs circles around the 6M$ mainframe computer I used back in 1974. US$ 1500 for a dumb terminal must have been a steal in 1980. Moore's law, I believe.

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1 hour ago, boojum said:

Leica has some pretty funny ideas about what their gear is worth.  I just bought an Olympus VF2 for US$140.  For another US$100 I could have bought one that had Leica on it rather than Olympus and they are the same.  That's shameless.

Maybe it’s what they should be sold for. After all, Leica are still in business, unlike Olympus.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53165293

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Hi,

I haven't done this in a very long time, but have a look at my old post:

It looks like you are also using gphoto, so it may be useful to go here and look for clues:

http://www.gphoto.org

Most likely it will work once you figure out that setting or fix that makes a difference ;)

I see in my old notes that it worked better for me if I specify "--camera --port" when gphoto2 talks USB.

Regards

Per

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