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5 hours ago, Torpille said:

Interesting point of view. 
I can't even imagine the price of such a material :)
So which camera do you use ?

Dual range has existed for some time time. Leica  Q is the only system that i know of that has integrated AF and dual range manual focusing capability ( as in ability to use distance scale and hyper focus). I guess that to me the dream setup if it was integrated to an interchangable system, but i think itll cannibalise M lens sales.  Horses for courses..

Currently i use a Leica M + FF system for Auto capability +  Leica X

Anyway i hope the best for your search, as we all are. All the best

Edited by cboy
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I would like to share my experience with the Leica CL after one year of use. The first idea was to find a replacement for my Canon 6D after 6 years of loyal service. Why change to a Leica CL, you ask?  - To gain in size and weight and really take my camera everywhere. - to benefit from EVF technology - to make full use of the lenses of my Leica T, which I love but is not the most efficient camera available. - to use my M lenses much more easily than with the T. - to finall

After giving my Wife my CL after I got the Panny S1R, I have realised that I miss that little CL so much that I have just sold my S1R and put the money straight on a CL. I will keep my M9 & M9M until i decide what one to sell on. The CL is SO GOOD, for my needs, it's a real little treasure of a camera and I'm so happy to be getting another one back again. Fortunately I kept the Sigma 16mm the 45mm and also the AMAZING 14-24 (21-35 in CL terms). Happy Lockdown.

Amen to all that. I bought my CL used 2 years ago with the 18-56. Added the 23 and 35 in the year following that. Didn't use it for much of 2020, really let the pandemic and politics get me into a funk, started shaking it off a few months ago. Did a big sell off of some other equipment after a realistic assessment of what I was using the most in the past couple years. It was the Q2 and the CL, in particular the 18-56!  The CL and 18-56 combo always surprise me me with how good they are, how clos

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On 10/11/2020 at 12:15 PM, cboy said:

The reason i didnt get a CL was the lack of manual controls for the CL lenses. Why didnt they make it similiar to the Leica Q summilux lens and combine manual focusing and AF capability?? Best of both worlds right? Instead they went too minimal imho. In a recent interview with Dr Karbe it was asked if the dual range capability in the Leica Q can be used in other systems, which he replied it was possible. Yes theres an adapter, but why not a native manual SL /TL lenses with AF capability similiar to Leica Q lens? Did they think it was differentiate from M lenses or it would eat into M marketshare? 

But, if you half-press the shutter the camera switches to manual focusing and you can set it to use manual focus aids like peaking automatically. 

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I am also very happy with my CL - every time I get tempted seeing friends' SL or SL2 all I need to do is carry that body and compare with my CL - I'm good!

I like it's versatility when combined with my M10-P- can easily take these 2 bodies with small bag for trip - that would give me a body with auto focus and another with rangefinder experience - also makes my M lenses more flexible, being able to use on the CL.

I have the 11-23 - stunningly superb, the 55-135 (gives me a whole different way to shoot compressed landscape shots), the pancake 18 for quick grab and go, the 23 for a 35 view and recently the Sigma 30/1.4 (also really good).  

Recently I got a great deal on a TL body so that went really well with the CL as a 2 body, 2 lens (no worries about changing lenses) hiking trip to the Rockies - still so light. Worked really great! 

Even more recently, I've used the CL with M lenses to shoot video interviews (tripod mount and external audio mic to phone) - very pleased - yes, very restrictive use for video but that suits my need very well.

 

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  • 1 month later...

I come back to this thread a few months after I launched it.

I realize that I use the CL less and less to the benefit of the SL.

The CL has an image quality that doesn't have to blush in front of the SL. 

I'm much more seduced by the electronic viewfinder and the general ergonomics of the SL, especially the joystick which brings a lot of comfort. And the battery life of the SL is a real positive point. 

The CL is I think one of the most underestimated system on the aps-C market.
The image quality is superb. The dynamics is excellent, the iso management is magnificent, especially in black and white.
The optical park is now mature whether with Leica or Sigma lenses.

But here it is, even if I didn't completely adhere to the concept, this one put me in appetite of the SL that I really appreciate a lot.

There is the question of investing in specific optics for the SL and selling my entire TL/CL system that I have been using for years now. 

To date my decision has not yet been made. 
Please do not hesitate to share your opinions.

Cheers
 

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/5/2020 at 12:37 PM, Torpille said:

The CL is I think one of the most underestimated system on the aps-C market.
The image quality is superb. The dynamics is excellent, the iso management is magnificent, especially in black and white.
The optical park is now mature whether with Leica or Sigma lenses.

Amen to all that. I bought my CL used 2 years ago with the 18-56. Added the 23 and 35 in the year following that. Didn't use it for much of 2020, really let the pandemic and politics get me into a funk, started shaking it off a few months ago. Did a big sell off of some other equipment after a realistic assessment of what I was using the most in the past couple years. It was the Q2 and the CL, in particular the 18-56!  The CL and 18-56 combo always surprise me me with how good they are, how close they are to the Q2. And the Leica implementation is superb. I had an A6500 with the same sensor, but the Leica implementation is just better and the Sony menu system and ergonomics make me want to poke my eyes out. 

 I realized I'm not going to haul around an SL2 (or Fuji GFX 100 that I just sold...) with a couple of zooms, whereas I will haul around a CL with another zoom stuck in my rucksack. The Q2 is mostly my indoor/low light camera.

And when I really get picky about the pixels I do have something else, but the CL is my everyday go to camera.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/13/2020 at 6:57 AM, jaapv said:

But, if you half-press the shutter the camera switches to manual focusing and you can set it to use manual focus aids like peaking automatically. 

I have used my CL for a bit over a year and never knew about this feature!  I just tried it! What a revelation.  Thanks for pointing that out.  I use the CL with my M lenses quite often and seem most comfortable with manual focus. Now I have it!

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I had my CL for just under a year and also found it capable of outstanding image quality, at least better than anything else that I own is able to generate (Canon Rebel 8Mp). I bought the CL because I expected it to be a cheaper, lighter and smaller M10. It was my first digital Leica, heck my first digital camera in 1 or 2 decades! I wanted to use it with M mount lenses and I did not want to invest in another lens mount system.

Unfortunately, I found it difficult to go back-and-forth between my also recently acquired M3 and my CL. Each time I grabbed the CL I wanted to see a shutter speed dial and an ISO dial. Furthermore, because of this Pandemic it didn’t get used very much. Nevertheless, for those times I wanted good quality colour images, it was the only camera I took with me.

In use, I found that pressing an up arrow in order to engage the expanded magnified view in the EVF was quite distracting. I didn’t trust the focussing without the magnifier, especially if wearing glasses.

I didn’t quite know what was the best mode to use with the manual M-lenses, there wasn’t very much guidance on this and I would sometimes be nervous about ensuring the exposure was correct given that the sensor should not be saturated. For the first few months I would fiddle with the settings with some frustration, I found it difficult to be sure I was operating it correctly when the control knobs are unlabelled and also vary their function depending on the mode and other settings - for most of the time I used the camera I felt I was driving blind. There was never a time that I was able to act quickly, no chance of ever choosing the decisive moment with all this uncertainty at the controls. The histogram was my best security. It was impossible to hand the camera to somebody else in order to have myself be in the shot (I have no shots with me in it) because nobody else could have figured out how to use it.

I’m sure if I had spent some proper time with the camera and establish a way of working with it, becoming familiar with the unusual controls, then it would’ve become second nature.

However, after 9 or 10 months I was feeling uneasy about not being able to get out and use it, watching it depreciate, and I kind of panicked - sold it last week. I did solve one mystery when I boxed it up for the new owner, my challenges with the focussing were partly because I had the dioptre adjustment at the wrong position!

 

It has left an aftertaste and it will take awhile before I will feel comfortable to buy a digital camera from Leica again. In the meantime I hope to shoot some film and will use my iphone when I need a digital image until a new solution presents itself.

Edited by Mr.Prime
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That is not the most practical way to use it - or any other digital camera for that matter. Using it with an M lens is perfectly simple if you want to use the camera in its basic mode: It switches to manual automatically as you mount the adapter, you can use the menu button to call up the most important controls on the touch screen, and save your preferred settings in a user profile. That enables you to shoot without getting lost in a technical maze. Don't try to set up all kinds of things on the fly - you'll only snarl yourself up.

I wish you had asked on the forum before giving up. And I wish that Leica would provide this kind of "quick start" guides, both in print and on YouTube.

It used to be different - one would buy a camera in a specialized shop and an expert salesperson would walk the customer through the basic use, if needed. Nostalgic ramblings - I know... :(

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49 minutes ago, jaapv said:

..Et je souhaite que Leica fournisse ce genre de guides de «démarrage rapide», à la fois sur papier et sur YouTube...

 

There was in the box of my kit (CL + 18-56) a short user manual on paper. The format is 12 accordion shutters measuring 13 cm x 19 cm. To start it is very good before going to refine the complete instructions for use.

 

Guytou

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IIRC it just told me how to insert the battery and mount the lens (duh) but I may not have read it at all ;) What I meant was a simple explanation how to use the camera effectively without drowning in detail.

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12 hours ago, jaapv said:

That is not the most practical way to use it - or any other digital camera for that matter. Using it with an M lens is perfectly simple if you want to use the camera in its basic mode: It switches to manual automatically as you mount the adapter, you can use the menu button to call up the most important controls on the touch screen, and save your preferred settings in a user profile. That enables you to shoot without getting lost in a technical maze. Don't try to set up all kinds of things on the fly - you'll only snarl yourself up.

I wish you had asked on the forum before giving up. And I wish that Leica would provide this kind of "quick start" guides, both in print and on YouTube.

It used to be different - one would buy a camera in a specialized shop and an expert salesperson would walk the customer through the basic use, if needed. Nostalgic ramblings - I know... :(

I didn’t have Leica branded adapters, would this have made any difference ? - as far as I could see, the off brand adapters were solidly made, accurately machined, nicely finished and cost less than a bottle of wine.

 

There were local camera stores (before the Pandemic at least) but virtually nobody carries Leica, just too niche. It’s much easier to fondle a Fuji. For Leica you have to go somewhere like a major centre, amongst the watch and jewelry stores. On vacation I got to handle a Q in Mayfair. Nearby was the local Bentley dealership, OMG what a desirable car...

Edited by Mr.Prime
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3 hours ago, Mr.Prime said:

[...] I had the dioptre adjustment at the wrong position [...] I didn’t have Leica branded adapters [...]

Not sure if you did put all the chances on the CL's side then...

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3 hours ago, Mr.Prime said:

I didn’t have Leica branded adapters, would this have made any difference ? - as far as I could see, the off brand adapters were solidly made, accurately machined, nicely finished and cost less than a bottle of wine.

Yes, it makes a difference - as they have no electric connection nor 6-bit reader they don't have lens recognition, they don't put the camera in manual mode automatically  and magnification is by the arrows and not by a wheel (which makes it very practical to use).

It is indeed a bit of a losing bet to focus with an improperly adjusted dioptre.

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ah, never knew that the adapter was part of the limitations I experienced!

Well, didn’t expect it to end here, my first digital camera purchase since 2005 (Rebel XT). It was supposed to be my return to photography by using the best. Unfortunately, it was just frustrating, I never got to a point of removing the screen protector from out of the box to use the screen fully, or use 90% of it’s functions for that matter.

I have kept my lenses of course and my M3 & M4, through which I am learning to appreciate what made Leica the chosen one. It’s a slower process than working with digital since I typically get to see the images a few weeks after taking them but still enjoyable.

 

Good thing is that my CL has gone to somebody who will know how to get better results, somebody with several digital Leica cameras. And now I know why he rejected my offer of giving him my lens adapters, said he wanted only Leica branded - I thought he was just fussy!

Edited by Mr.Prime
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I think you would be better off buying a Canon M6, put it on the green rectangle and adapt your Leica lenses. After you have become used to digital, you can always move to one of the Leica bodies. However, i question whether it is a good idea for you to enter the digital photography world at all, as over three-quarters of  the learning curve for really good photographs is postprocessing.

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I think you have misunderstood the reason for my disappointment with the CL if you think it’s unfamiliarity with digital. For family & travel documentation I exclusively use digital, have done for 15 years and now have about 80% of my life’s images from digital cameras.

My 2020 foray back into film is for nostalgic and artistic reasons only, and I wanted to experience the iconic M camera. This fun-with-film experience has brought me some joy during the pandemic but will not replace digital as my main-use medium. After becoming a Leica fan, I wanted something new. Unfortunately, the CL experience has left a bad taste, going from excitement at unboxing my first new Leica to a feeling of loss, of a missed opportunity.

 

Where next? will a CL2 release create a fresh chance to jump back in, or should I look at a digital M, or a Sony or Fuji with M adapter. Don’t know yet.

 

 

Edited by Mr.Prime
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my wallet is getting that sinking feeling too, and it maybe that I will not be jumping back in until I see if a new iphone will meet my documentary needs for family instead (they keep getting better), and perhaps after my affair with film has run it’s course. Either way, a digital M is something I’d like to at least have in my hands before I buy this time, and it might be months before I can find one.

 

Edited by Mr.Prime
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After my experience with the CL I also cast my eyes around and was shocked at how good competing cameras are, e.g. latest Sony a7c and others which on paper offer a lot. Many are also less weight than an old M240. I’m convinced about Leica when it comes to my M3, M4 and my Summilux, but after the CL experience I’m no longer convinced about their modern offerings; ideally, I’d want to get one in my hands.

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