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SrMi

Leica S3 PDR on PhotonsToPhotos

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10 minutes ago, John McMaster said:

Hmm, says that the S3 has less dynamic range than the S(007).....

john

The difference is too small to be relevant, IMO. I would say the measured PDR is about the same.
It is better than SL2 except for SL2's ISO50, which comes with its own set of issues.

Edited by SrMi

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It would have been nice if Leica used dual gain ISO in M10-R and S3.

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18 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Do you mean dual native ISO? Gain amplification is not needed for the higher native ISO. See 1:14 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJYZfRftaXk

 

Yes, dual native ISO, dual base ISO, dual gain, Aptina's dual-conversion gain, all the same, AFAIK.

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20 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Here's the comparison of S3 to SL2 to M10-R.  I shows that the M10-R is benefiting from the  chip technology advances that went into the S3.  They are very close.  In the SL2 and M10-R charts, note the effect of the dual-range support (extra amplification kicks in around ISO 400).

Or is it the other way around, the S3 benefitting from the chip technology that went into the M10M and M10R? Is it that full frame has caught up to medium format?

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20 hours ago, SrMi said:

It would have been nice if Leica used dual gain ISO in M10-R and S3.

Leica does use dual gain architecture in the S3, M10 Monochrom and M10-R.  This has been made clear by Stefan Daniel, and repeated both in print and in video by David Farkas.

Jeff

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3 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Leica does use dual gain architecture in the S3, M10 Monochrom and M10-R.  This has been made clear by Stefan Daniel, and repeated both in print and in video by David Farkas.

Jeff

Yes, you are right. M10-R has two base ISOs, one at 126 and one at 400. S3 has one at 100 and one somewhere around 800. The gain change seems to be relatively small, though.

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19 minutes ago, John Smith said:

Or is it the other way around, the S3 benefitting from the chip technology that went into the M10M and M10R? Is it that full frame has caught up to medium format?

Since only Leica uses 30x45mm sensor, the S3, M10-R, M10M triple shares a unique sensor due to S3. As was the case for S007, M240, etc. 

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19 minutes ago, helged said:

Since only Leica uses 30x45mm sensor, the S3, M10-R, M10M triple shares a unique sensor due to S3. As was the case for S007, M240, etc. 

Indeed... only way for S sensor to be economically feasible.
 

These types of economies are necessary, whether created within the same company or across-company partnerships, as Nicci has discussed elsewhere.

Jeff

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1 hour ago, helged said:

Since only Leica uses 30x45mm sensor, the S3, M10-R, M10M triple shares a unique sensor due to S3. As was the case for S007, M240, etc. 

Due to the S3? I'm suggesting it was the other way around, more trickle up technology than trickle down. The M system is the core product of the company. It looks as if the S3 benefitted from the drive to create state-of-the-art sensors for the Ms. Hence a new Pro Format sensor in a 2015 body. In any case, it is interesting to see how the M has become such a powerhouse of megapixels. 

Edited by John Smith

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11 minutes ago, John Smith said:

Due to the S3? I'm suggesting it was the other way around, more trickle up technology than trickle down. The M system is the core product of the company. It looks as if the S3 benefitted from the drive to create state-of-the-art sensors for the Ms. Hence a new Pro Format sensor in a 2015 body. In any case, it is interesting to see how the M has become such a powerhouse of megapixels. 

Leica announced S3 in 2018 (working demo model). I assume that it already had the current sensor. 

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15 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Leica announced S3 in 2018 (working demo model). I assume that it already had the current sensor. 

And it didn't have those sensors in mind for the Ms?

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30 minutes ago, John Smith said:

Due to the S3? I'm suggesting it was the other way around, more trickle up technology than trickle down. The M system is the core product of the company. It looks as if the S3 benefitted from the drive to create state-of-the-art sensors for the Ms. Hence a new Pro Format sensor in a 2015 body. In any case, it is interesting to see how the M has become such a powerhouse of megapixels. 

As long as Leica manufactures S-bodies, the sensors follow that of the S. At least up to now (including S3). FF sensors are available from many vendors, a 30x45mm sensor needs to be exclusively manufactures by Leica. 

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3 minutes ago, John Smith said:

And it didn't have those sensors in mind for the Ms?

Surely. To reduced the cost of the S-sensor, it's also used by (most of) the FF-bodies. (Back to shooting... 😉). 

Edited by helged

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Just now, helged said:

As long as Leica manufactures S-bodies, the sensors follow that of the S. At least up to now (including S3). FF sensors are available from many vendors, a 30x45mm sensor needs to be exclusively manufactures by Leica. 

I think you're wrong on this. Leica can't buy off-the-shelf sensors for the Ms. I think Stefan Daniel said so himself. If you want to think that the S3 drove the innovation for the new Ms, so be it. I think it's the other way around, at least this time. You don't have that many people buying S3s and my dealer told me that it is a limited production run. 

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2 hours ago, helged said:

As was the case for S007, M240, etc. 

The S(007) sensor is far superior to the M(240) one....

john

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25 minutes ago, John Smith said:

And it didn't have those sensors in mind for the Ms?

Probably they did, but it seems that the new sensor technology was first tested in S3.

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