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Leica Q2 or M10P?


Steven

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I have both. my opinion is that the M10 renders nicer in LR. Just did a lot of shots last Sunday: My wife took the Q2 an I had the M10.

Some might say that this has to do with the import profile. I use no profile and import all pictures (Q2, M10 or Canon 5D MkIV) the same way. Re the autumn pictures the Q2 is lacking yellow and bits of read. So the Canon and M10 render nicer. I can finally do the same with the Q2 pictures but it takes some effort in LR. It takes much more time. For this kind of nature picture I would grab first the M10 then the Q2 (Conon is too big and heavy for that kind of use).

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2 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

I have both. my opinion is that the M10 renders nicer in LR. Just did a lot of shots last Sunday: My wife took the Q2 an I had the M10.

Some might say that this has to do with the import profile. I use no profile and import all pictures (Q2, M10 or Canon 5D MkIV) the same way. Re the autumn pictures the Q2 is lacking yellow and bits of read. So the Canon and M10 render nicer. I can finally do the same with the Q2 pictures but it takes some effort in LR. It takes much more time. For this kind of nature picture I would grab first the M10 then the Q2 (Conon is too big and heavy for that kind of use).

 Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this. 
What lense do you have on the m10? 
And what about portraits ? Skin tones and depth of field ? Good enough on the q2

also, out of curiosity, which do you have more fun shooting with, beyond precise results ? 

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Am 19.9.2020 um 19:39 schrieb Steven:

Hi guys, 

Im new here, but not new to the Leica world. I have been shooting for years with the M series. Started with an M6/M7, and now my main photo camera is the M10P. I adore it. I only own one lens, which is the 35 lux ASPH 1.4. 35mm is my preferred focal length, and I can live with it for the rest of my life without needed anything wider or tighter. 

I mainly shoot street and city scapes, sometimes portraits, but I recently got kids, so now I also shoot family stuff. I consider myself pretty good at focusing with an RF, but with the kids I just cant. I get too tired bending over to make myself at their height and align my RF on their face. So it got me thinking wether it was time to go to an autofocus system. 

I have been considering the Q2. It seems to be a perfect all around camera. The lens is brilliant. I could live with 28mm although I prefer a little more compression on the 35 (and I do not consider, like some say, that the Q2 in a 4 lens in 1 camera. To me, its a 28mm with enough MP to crop and readjust, but in no way its comparable to my 35). The only problem is that I cannot afford both. I love range finders, but I also really need autofocus. 

So eventually, I think it will come down to the image produced by the camera to make my choice, cause eventually the end result is more important to me than the whole process. I went to the Leica shop today and I compared the Q2 and the M10P side by side. Both photos shot manual with exactly the same settings, except that on the Q I'm at 1.7 while on the M I'm at 2.0. I can't help but notice that the 35 lux has much more character than the Q2. It looks more cinematic to me, less clinically sharp. But the Q2 is still an amazing piece of gear, im amazed by it. 

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1YtZbcLOWQ2niaa54a1CBhO78zkDQbwa6?usp=sharing

Based on this photo, which result do you like better? and what is your experience with Q2 and M10? if you could chose only one, which one would it be and why? 


PS: the photo where the salesperson of the Leica shop smiles is the M, and the one where he doesn't smile is the Q! 

 

Cheers, 

 

I prefer the 1st image, better midtones IMO. My experience Q2 and SL2 are tweaked a bit towards "contrast, sharpness, pop, saturation".

IMO the Q2 has this great integrated crop function, which is very usefull. And it has AF, which is sometimes usefull.

The M10p feels more solid and has the optical viewfinder. Makes you feel connected to the subjected, but less accurate for framing. It is a very personal question what is important for you.

If it is just about the result I would probably prefer the M by a slight margin.

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re #42

I shoot a lot of events (political stuff or company reunions etc, etc). For this I need fast and long lens: Normally a 135mm f/2 plus 50mm f/1.4. These 2 kenses will do 90 of the job and sometimes I use a 24-70mm f/2.8 which is nit fast enough. The body is Canon 5. All stuff with 70-200mm 2.8 is much too heavy and I do not touch it any more but do not sell either (you never know). The results with Canon are superb. Skin tones are very important for that kind of shooting and I love the Canon results. White balance is excellent as well.  Leica is the gear I love for all other occasions as it is light and beautiful. On the M10 I normally use the 35 Lux. If I take 2 lenses these are the 28mm Cron and the 50mm Summarit (great and small and light). The lenses I use the least are the 21mm Super-Elmar and the 75 Summicron. Almost never I use the 50mm Lux (I bought the silver one without being aware that it is too heavy but I keep it). The 28mm of the Q2 is wonderful angle of view and suits me to the ground as I normally shoot between 28 and 50mm anyway. The M10 is my absolute favourite. The Q2 my wife uses normally. And I take it when I think that I need AF and crop options. I said it above that I prefer the initial colors of the M10 over the Q2. With lots of brush work I end up with similar or same result in LR. But because of this I much prefer M10 with any of the mentionned lenses. Most of the time I need no AF. Then I like to shoot fully manually. And here comes some another point. The handling of an M10 in manual mode is much more logical (I have the brain of an engineer and a mathematician). For many people the Q2 is fine. But I do not like its handling too much. It starts with shutter speet button making big 1LV jumps only instead of ½ or ⅓ LV. Then you have to correct with the little wheel on the side which is not logical at all (to mee). And so on and so on. But this is me. I realize that when asking questions here in the forum about these things I get no answers. But I have the choice. And my choice is clearly the M10.

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34 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

I prefer the 1st image, better midtones IMO. My experience Q2 and SL2 are tweaked a bit towards "contrast, sharpness, pop, saturation".

IMO the Q2 has this great integrated crop function, which is very usefull. And it has AF, which is sometimes usefull.

The M10p feels more solid and has the optical viewfinder. Makes you feel connected to the subjected, but less accurate for framing. It is a very personal question what is important for you.

If it is just about the result I would probably prefer the M by a slight margin.

Well, the photo you preferred was the one from the M. Same settings, no editing. 

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Hello Hello, 

 

How are you guys? Thanks again for the advice you’ve all been giving me. 

To draw my own conclusions, I decided to go to the leica store in Paris yesterday and get a Q2. 

I came home very exited. It’s so beautiful, i love the look of it, although it doesn’t look as cool to me as the M10. 

From the very first photo I took, I have been amazed at the Q2. The quality of the lens is crazy, and the photos are all amazing. You have to see it to believe it. It’s also very fun to use for street photography. 

For the past 24 hours though, I have been comparing it to my M10-P. I took daylight photos, street, landscapes, portraits, indoor shots, and a lot of night photos. For each photo I took with the Q2, I shot the same with the M10-P (with a my adored 35mm Lux). 

Later, I came home with 96 shots on each camera. I loaded them in Lightroom and put them side by side. And the result left me without word. 

There is not one shot taken on the Q2 that even comes clothe to the M10. Its unbelievable how much I preferred every single time my M10. It is has so much more character than the Q2 which next to it looks too sharp and digital in my opinion. I showed a few to my wife, asking which she preferred. Every single time she answered the M10. Can’t describe it! 

 

So here we are, this morning I returned the Q2, because I had no doubt left in my mind that if I was ever given the option to pick the M10 or the Q2, no matter what the situation is, ill always go for the M10P. 

 

There are two things that I was really looking forward to with the Q2. The Macro, and I’m sad that i cant focus closer than 70cm on my M. 

The second was the autofocus. And the truth is that while the autofocus is good on the Q, if you want it to be very accurate, i noticed that you really have to change the mode according to the situation you’re  in. Multi field is fine for street. If you get close to subject, face is better. For landscape i liked spot the most. In the end of the day, going through the menu to adjust the focus mode is wasted time, some time i dont waste with manual focus on the M10. I’m even daring to say the M10 might be faster in most situation. 

 

A millions thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts with me. 

 

To be continued....  

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28 minutes ago, Steven said:

Hello Hello, 

 

How are you guys? Thanks again for the advice you’ve all been giving me. 

To draw my own conclusions, I decided to go to the leica store in Paris yesterday and get a Q2. 

I came home very exited. It’s so beautiful, i love the look of it, although it doesn’t look as cool to me as the M10. 

From the very first photo I took, I have been amazed at the Q2. The quality of the lens is crazy, and the photos are all amazing. You have to see it to believe it. It’s also very fun to use for street photography. 

For the past 24 hours though, I have been comparing it to my M10-P. I took daylight photos, street, landscapes, portraits, indoor shots, and a lot of night photos. For each photo I took with the Q2, I shot the same with the M10-P (with a my adored 35mm Lux). 

Later, I came home with 96 shots on each camera. I loaded them in Lightroom and put them side by side. And the result left me without word. 

There is not one shot taken on the Q2 that even comes clothe to the M10. Its unbelievable how much I preferred every single time my M10. It is has so much more character than the Q2 which next to it looks too sharp and digital in my opinion. I showed a few to my wife, asking which she preferred. Every single time she answered the M10. Can’t describe it! 

 

So here we are, this morning I returned the Q2, because I had no doubt left in my mind that if I was ever given the option to pick the M10 or the Q2, no matter what the situation is, ill always go for the M10P. 

 

There are two things that I was really looking forward to with the Q2. The Macro, and I’m sad that i cant focus closer than 70cm on my M. 

The second was the autofocus. And the truth is that while the autofocus is good on the Q, if you want it to be very accurate, i noticed that you really have to change the mode according to the situation you’re  in. Multi field is fine for street. If you get close to subject, face is better. For landscape i liked spot the most. In the end of the day, going through the menu to adjust the focus mode is wasted time, some time i dont waste with manual focus on the M10. I’m even daring to say the M10 might be faster in most situation. 

 

A millions thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts with me. 

 

To be continued....  

I’m glad that the decision was obvious from the photos!

A couple comments, though, for others who might be looking at the same decision. There is no doubt that the 35 ‘Lux and the 28mm in the Q2 render differently. For those that are worried the Q2 will be too clinical or digital looking or lacking in character, though... Let’s just say we all have our own tastes. What some describe as clinical others describe neutral. What some describe as character, others would use less flattering terms for.

I’m not knocking the 35 ‘Lux or the M10. Clearly they are the better choice for you. That’s great, and you are not wrong to make that decision when you simply liked the results better. It’s giving you what you want and the Q2 was it. Enough said on that topic.

As to autofocus... You are absolutely correct that AF requires you to select a mode that is appropriate for your situation. That is true whether you are talking about the Q2 or Nikon Z or a Sony A9. The mode I would choose for portraits is different than what I would choose for one of my son’s mountain bike races. AF isn’t the only thing I would change, either, as I move from one environment to another. Auto ISO settings, shutter/aperture priority, focal ratio, and other settings would all need to be changed. Most people find it is effective to setup profiles for their most common shooting scenarios so that they don’t have to go through the menu. It’s rare that the AF requirements would change suddenly or unpredictably. I don’t think it is reasonable to say manual focus is faster because AF requires you to set a mode. You do that once and are typically good for the day/event.

Enjoy your M10 with confidence now! Again, it’s wonderful when the results provide such a clear answer. Now you don’t have to wonder, “What if?” Clearly the M10 is a better camera for your shooting.

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Hi, I’m new to leica and just got myself Q2 yesterday. It’s my first FF and Leica. Can’t comment on anything Leica at this moment but hope to experience soon.

Have you consider Fujifilm X100V? It’s a rangefinder style, AF, 35mm F2 fixed lens, tilting screen for your kids (you don’t have to bend over/kneel), has digital crop too like Q2 (50 & 75) & less than 1/3 of Q2 price. The only cons would be it is APSC but I’ve been using X100F and plan to upgrade to the V version for improved lens (sharper and close focusing vs F) and faster AF. 
 

perhaps you can keep your M10P and add X100V for the things you described.

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I thought about it but the truth is that I don’t like the way the camera looks too much. And this matters to me. 
 

i tried the q2 and although it’s a beautiful caméra, I preferred to return it. 
at this point my setup is:

a7siii for video 

m10p with a 35 Lux for photos

Ricoh gr III for everyday stuff 

it works .... for now  

 

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On 9/27/2020 at 12:23 AM, Steven said:

I thought about it but the truth is that I don’t like the way the camera looks too much. And this matters to me. 
 

i tried the q2 and although it’s a beautiful caméra, I preferred to return it. 
at this point my setup is:

a7siii for video 

m10p with a 35 Lux for photos

Ricoh gr III for everyday stuff 

it works .... for now  

 

That's a good combination.  Q2's AF is great, Sony is much better for tracking kids and video. 

M10-P appears to have slightly better sensor than Q2, but the biggest difference is really the lens choice.  I much prefer 50mm lux and using M10, but missed too many shots of kids with that combo.

Smart thing that you made the choice by personal experience.

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1. I didn't see a clear winner between the 2 photos. It looks like you moved closer to the subject when he's not smiling and the lighting is quite different - on his face. To me they are just different.

 

2. As for your dilemma - as I understand it - you pretty much do not want to move away from the Leica family. Your main concern is that for 30% of your shooting you find it hard to get low enough for long enough to compose and focus (manually) to get good shots of your kids and your a bokeh junkie so zone focusing with smaller aperture won't work most of the time. And your budget says keep the m10 or trade for the q2.

Sadly there's no right answer and regardless of your choice you'll probably still have doubts.

Suggestions.

1. Keep the m10 and get on the floor when you shoot the kids. Also consider buying a stool - with wheels or without depending on your floors. That will help when you have to get a lower pov. (I'm being serious btw - I have my own mobility challenges so I relate) 

2 if budget allows and the CL isn't for you - maybe a preowned Q aded to the M will work -

3.  Sell the M buy the q2 and put away the extra funds from the sale of the M- knowing that the Q2 a tool you are getting for about 4-5 years after which you can sell it and buy a preowned M 

The limits to stay within the Leica universe limits your choices and no matter the choice you are making a compromise - I'm guessing you know that and - unfortunately - it's unlikely any of us will be able to replicate your situation to provide the perfect answer.

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7 hours ago, Dannyred said:

1. I didn't see a clear winner between the 2 photos. It looks like you moved closer to the subject when he's not smiling and the lighting is quite different - on his face. To me they are just different.

 

2. As for your dilemma - as I understand it - you pretty much do not want to move away from the Leica family. Your main concern is that for 30% of your shooting you find it hard to get low enough for long enough to compose and focus (manually) to get good shots of your kids and your a bokeh junkie so zone focusing with smaller aperture won't work most of the time. And your budget says keep the m10 or trade for the q2.

Sadly there's no right answer and regardless of your choice you'll probably still have doubts.

Suggestions.

1. Keep the m10 and get on the floor when you shoot the kids. Also consider buying a stool - with wheels or without depending on your floors. That will help when you have to get a lower pov. (I'm being serious btw - I have my own mobility challenges so I relate) 

2 if budget allows and the CL isn't for you - maybe a preowned Q aded to the M will work -

3.  Sell the M buy the q2 and put away the extra funds from the sale of the M- knowing that the Q2 a tool you are getting for about 4-5 years after which you can sell it and buy a preowned M 

The limits to stay within the Leica universe limits your choices and no matter the choice you are making a compromise - I'm guessing you know that and - unfortunately - it's unlikely any of us will be able to replicate your situation to provide the perfect answer.

I think I looked at this issue the wrong ay the first time around. 

I bought a Q2 last week. Tried it side by side with my M10, compared all the photos and always preferred the 35 lux M10 photos to the Q2, so I returned the q2 after 24 hours. But that was wrong. That was wrong because they are two different cameras that cannot be compared. 

So I just got another Q2 again! Its arriving tomorrow. But this time, I will try it on its own. I will see if I have fun using it on its own, without comparing to the m10. I will see if I like the photos im making with it, without comparing to the m10. I will see if it can find a place in my life, without comparing to the m10. 

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14 hours ago, Steven said:

I think I looked at this issue the wrong ay the first time around. 

I bought a Q2 last week. Tried it side by side with my M10, compared all the photos and always preferred the 35 lux M10 photos to the Q2, so I returned the q2 after 24 hours. But that was wrong. That was wrong because they are two different cameras that cannot be compared. 

So I just got another Q2 again! Its arriving tomorrow. But this time, I will try it on its own. I will see if I have fun using it on its own, without comparing to the m10. I will see if I like the photos im making with it, without comparing to the m10. I will see if it can find a place in my life, without comparing to the m10. 

That's an excellent idea as - really - you're the only person that can tell how you react to the q2. It doesn't matter what anyone in the group says - though some input has value for sure - but in the end you've got to decide and the best way to decide is to use the camera.

My first experience with a Q2 was at a Leica workshop here ini LA. I had no prep time with it, just had enough time to turn it on - and the percent of 'keepers' that day was very high. (endorsed by the instructor). AND - I just loved the 'feel' and 'experience' I had with the camera (my other gear includes a Fuji X-T4 and a Sony RX100VII - each with its own purpose) - So - despite not intending to pay 5 grand plus tax for a camera - I decided to do it - and while the timing - Pandemic is cutting into my street shooting - I'm very happy with the purchase.

Good luck narrowing down your choice and happy shooting - stay safe and sane

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On 10/1/2020 at 8:51 PM, Steven said:

I think I looked at this issue the wrong ay the first time around. 

I bought a Q2 last week. Tried it side by side with my M10, compared all the photos and always preferred the 35 lux M10 photos to the Q2, so I returned the q2 after 24 hours. But that was wrong. That was wrong because they are two different cameras that cannot be compared. 

So I just got another Q2 again! Its arriving tomorrow. But this time, I will try it on its own. I will see if I have fun using it on its own, without comparing to the m10. I will see if I like the photos im making with it, without comparing to the m10. I will see if it can find a place in my life, without comparing to the m10. 
 

That’s great that you’re giving Q2 another go and I agree with you not to compare it with M10 side by side as they are different.

I was doing the opposite, bought Q2 last week and was offered intro workshop of M10 by Leica boutique here. So I spent 3 hours or so learning about the M system and get to use it for ‘test drive’. First time handling a real manual rangefinder (I have used Fuji’s interpretation of rangefinder), while rather brief, I felt smitten with the M 🥰. I initially felt the picture renders differently to Q2, it just seems to have more depth and clarity but it could just be my imagination as I didn’t shoot them side by side.

I picked Q2 as I never imagine I could manual focus comfortably but the guy who conducted the workshop showed me how easy it was and I thing I could get the hang of it. What I was not so comfortable with was the framing. I found the white framing guides in the viewfinder were confusing and had to scroll my eye up/down & across continuously to frame correctly. The guide told me it could be due to the lens we used was 28mm and I am wearing glasses. I wish Leica could offer both optical & electronic viewfinder similar to fuji (I know it’s probably not going to happen but here’s wishing). 

I now find manual focusing in Q2 is easier and much faster to use than AF especially for close distance off-centre subject as I find it difficult to move the focus point using d-pad when you have your eye on the EVF. In this regard I feel having a joystick would help.

Anyway, I think I am happy with my Q2 setting/handling for now and will focus on using it. But my mind is already thinking about M10P with 50mm to accompany it... 

Let us know how you go about Q2!

 

 

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Both are excellent cameras and neither take bad photographs - it's the photographer that takes the photographs, not the camera.  If you take better photographs with one camera, then it's probably because you feel more comfortable using that camera.

Last year I made a trip to Scotland, taking in Skye and Harris & Lewis.  I took M10 with four lenses - 24mm, 35mm 50mm and 90mm - and my Q2.  After the trip I did a photo count.  Didn't take one photo with the 24mm and the total of all photos taken on the M10 with the other three lenses was roughly the same as those taken with the Q2.  About 10% of the M10 photos were taken with the 90mm, the other 90% were split pretty even between the 35mm and 50mm.

Looking back, I could have done the whole trip with the Q2 and just cropped when necessary.  Don't get me wrong, I love using the rangefinder, but the Q2 is a pretty compelling package.

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@Steven I think you made the right call in re-acquiring a Q2 as a supplement to your M10-P and 35 Summilux. 

As I scrolled through the above posts and read them, my recommendation was going to be keep your M10-P and 35 Summilux and add a Q2 to your bag.  Based on my experience and your needs, I think this is the right call. 

There is no replacing an M10-P and a 35 Summilux - but the Q2 is a totally different beast.  Now you have more options, which is a good thing.

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My experience - I bought a QP on a whim to use for documentary and street work because it would be less noticeable than an M with an f2.5 Summarit or a 0.95 Noctilux. 

After a year and a half with the QP - It's not an M - I have an M-E, an M10-Mono, an M6ttl an M4, 2 M5s (and an M10r on order). I have been shooting with one M series Leica or another for 35 years at least. 

The QP doesn't have as much presence from the subject's POV so it's good for street work, kids etc. but seriously folks - how much more gravitas (presence) does an M series camera have to a subject? Compared to my Canon DSLRs that I use for the bulk of my commissioned projects, M cameras are invisible.

The QP is a Leica, the images are super however, when I pick up a Leica  -my muscle memory says M. It is as foreign to use as my Fuji S100 which I bought to use when I'm working overseas or in questionable areas in the U.S.. The photos I get from it are excellent but it's a chore to use.  

The QP nearly ended up on eBay as about half of my images in Lightroom are MP4s. I finally found the menu item that allows one to LOCK-OUT video. If I want to shoot video, I'll use one of the Canons -thanks Leica.

At this point- I have 2 batteries for the typ 220 M-E, 3 for the QP and 3 for the M10-M as well as batteries for the various Canon Dslrs, Fuji and older Ms. Looking forward to the arrival of the M-10R which will allow me to dispose of the M-E and theoretically the QP and all their batteries and assorted wall-wort chargers. 

In my experience, the ergonomics of the M10-M/R are closer to the older 'film' M series camers -except the M5. 

The Q cameras are great for a first Leica or to stash in an overnight bag IMHO but if you are used to the M family. Why torture yourself?

That said - I take the QP out when I walk. This photo Cross House - was shot 45 mins after sunset. Having OIS is a great benefit. Using the QP is a different experience. It's not a horizontal move from an M. I just need to take a little more time with it. I use the QP at f8 - with Auto ISO  set to 1600 ISO Max and shutter speed set to 1/8th second. It is really what I thought it would be. If you buy one just take some time to learn to use it - time spent will be returned in multiples. 

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The Ricoh GR suggestion is a good one. I find the pop out lens and automatic lens cap ideal for putting in a pocket when heading out with the family. 

There are some favourable comparisons with the Elmarit 28mm M-lens, so it is no slouch, especially in B&W.

I had the GRiii but went back to the GRii because I found it more intuitive and less expensive if damaged. I didn’t find a discernible loss in quality.

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