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Leica Q2 or M10P?


Steven

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1 minute ago, Steven said:

You're totally right. But you still didn't answer the question 😆

I think I did.  I couldn’t care less what was used to make a photo, mine or someone else’s; it either works or it doesn’t. The Q2, the M10, and many other options these days are very capable of yielding worthy pics and prints when the photographer makes it happen.

Jeff

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2 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I think I did.  I couldn’t care less what was used to make a photo, mine or someone else’s; it either works or it doesn’t. The Q2, the M10, and many other options these days are very capable of yielding worthy pics and prints when the photographer makes it happen.

Jeff

I understand that you don't care. Even an iPhone can take a nice picture. 

But the two pictures that I posted have a different feel. I wanted to know which one of the two you prefer.. even if you don't care which one you prefer !! Come one, choose one ! You posted 16K times. you must be wise ! 

Edited by Steven
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Snag a Fuji x100v. It will give you the 35mm fov and you won’t miss any shots of the kids. I have had an m10-p, I currently have a Q2 with an m10r on the way. I also have a x100v. And when I go see the grandkids, the x100v usually ends up getting the call. It was more work trying to shoot them with the M than my time enjoying being with them (unless they were asleep!) 
 

ive used the Q2 with the grands and its fine...like you, I prefer the 35mm fov and it’s hard to beat for $1200. Then you can keep your M. 

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3 minutes ago, Steven said:

I understand that you don't care. Even an iPhone can take a nice picture. 

But the two pictures that I posted have a different feel. I wanted to know which one of the two you prefer.. even if you don't care which one you prefer !! Come one, choose one ! You posted 16K times. you must be wise ! 

First, I couldn’t open the link. Second, screen shoots are a poor way to judge... as you say, a phone pic can look just fine. Third, you should be able to process pics to look alike online, if that’s your goal.

Jeff

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10 minutes ago, thedwp said:

Snag a Fuji x100v. It will give you the 35mm fov and you won’t miss any shots of the kids. I have had an m10-p, I currently have a Q2 with an m10r on the way. I also have a x100v. And when I go see the grandkids, the x100v usually ends up getting the call. It was more work trying to shoot them with the M than my time enjoying being with them (unless they were asleep!) 
 

ive used the Q2 with the grands and its fine...like you, I prefer the 35mm fov and it’s hard to beat for $1200. Then you can keep your M. 

Going to YouTube right now to check it out. Although I was keen on a Leica for my all around camera. 

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12 minutes ago, Steven said:

I understand that you don't care. Even an iPhone can take a nice picture. 

But the two pictures that I posted have a different feel. I wanted to know which one of the two you prefer.. even if you don't care which one you prefer !! Come one, choose one ! You posted 16K times. you must be wise ! 

Jaap answered your question in the very first response, and he’s wiser than I with 62k posts.  In a nutshell, “image quality is ample with both”.

Jeff

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1 hour ago, Steven said:

By the ways, you guys never answered the question in my original post. Do you prefer the Q2 or the M10 photo ? 

They are JPEG export of the DNG files, same camera settings, 0 edits. 

It was not answered because it is too much of a draw.

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“Based on this photo, which result do you like better? and what is your experience with Q2 and M10? if you could chose only one, which one would it be and why?”

As Jaapv said, it’s draw.  I don’t prefer one over the other.  I own a Q2 after renting one and deciding it was “the” camera for me.  I like everything about it.  Period.  I have also rented many variations of the M cameras.  I loved each one including the Monochrom.  They were and still are a pleasure to use.  I still rent an M series on occasion when it fancies me.  For an everyday carry camera I decided the Q2 was for me.  I still feel this way and there are no regrets.  

 

 

 

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For myself, if I had a choice between a Q2 and an M10 with only one lens (35mm ‘Lux), I would take the Q2. You should not, though. You should keep the M. Reasons? I prefer the Q2 because of the following:

- AF
- OIS
- Weight
- Macro/near focus
- Weather sealing
- Better menus
- Leaf shutter (virtually silent)

Really, there are only three reasons one might reasonably choose the M10 with a single lens instead. First and foremost, one might just prefer the rangefinder experience. I don’t. I owned and shot with M cameras for years, but I can’t say I actually prefer a rangefinder. You have said you don’t care between optical viewfinder and EVF but would prefer to have AF, so I’ll discount this M ‘advantage’. The second reason is the focal length. You prefer 35mm, and have said you don’t buy the argument that a Q2 is four focal lengths in one. You are correct, but only to a point. The 35mm crop really has few if any disadvantages vs. a theoretical f/2.1 or so full frame 35mm lens on a 24 megapixel camera. Depth of field would be the same, high ISO performance would be the same, and resolution would be nearly the same. 50mm and 75mm may be pushing it a bit for some uses, but 35mm is definitely not. When you have 48 megapixels to play with, a digital zoom/crop really isn’t a bad thing.

The final reason to choose the M is that you just like the rendering of the 35 ‘Lux better. This one is a matter of taste, and I don’t happen to agree that the ‘Lux is more cinematic, but to each their own. Because of this reason I would recommend you keep the M. I think you are more attached to this lens than you may realize and would never be happy with the Q2. If that weren’t the case this decision wouldn’t be a struggle. The obvious advantages of the Q2 listed above would win you over. So stick with the M and the 35 ‘Lux and just suck it up and use your phone for the kids. For most family photos the ability to quickly and easily share content from a phone trumps the improved image quality of a bigger camera anyway. And for those situations where you’d rather use the Leica? Go ahead and use it.

Edited by Jared
Clarity
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I prefer the clear optical finder v electronic simulation of reality.

Also i like 35mm focal length but am useless with a 28mm.

I mean imagine choosing a fixed 28mm lens camera but just using it in crop mode!

For me if you like 28mm a lot and enjoy EVF/AF get the Q otherwise dont bother.

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The Q2 and M10P are totally different cameras - you can't equate them to each other.  Each has its own set of strengths.

I was an M camera shooter for 15+ years before I got a Q2.  The EVF for my M-P 240 left a lot to be desired so I almost never used it.  The EVF of the Q2 is not objectionable at all, though.

The Q2's autofocus is nice to have for some uses but will not replace the M camera's manual focus for shooting in near darkness.

If you want a very capable travel and daily use camera and are okay with having only a 28mm lens, the Q2 is an excellent choice.  I have read that the original Q is Leica's best selling camera ever; that tells me that Leica nailed it when they created the Q.  And then they gave us the Q2 which is a quantum upgrade compared to its predecessor. 

Since you already have an M10 with a 35mm Summilux, the Q2 would be a nice compliment to that camera & lens. 

With regard to your question "Which photo do you like better?"  the more important question is "which photo do you (the photographer) like better?" 

With cameras like the Q2, M10 and M10P and Leica M lenses, image quality is never going to be an issue - unless the photographer fails to use good technique and causes image quality to suffer (wrong white balance, poor exposure, camera shake, out of focus, leaves lens cap on, etc.).

As long as the camera is not defective or damaged, it's not the camera that makes a bad photograph - it's the photographer.  The camera merely does what it's told to do.

 

 

 

Edited by Herr Barnack
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Don't really know how to say this but, I bought a Q2 in January, followed by M10-P (with 50Lux ASPH) in April and, after using them both continuously for the past 6 months, I still can't decide which is the better camera. They really do have their own strengths and use-cases. Although when you have access to both, they compliment each other splendidly well.  On days that I know that I'll be taking photos, I leave the house with both of them. 

From what I've read so far, I think you'd really miss your M10-P if you sell it. Focusing is just not the same with the Q2 EVF and I also prefer the rangefinder focusing as well, although it has it's own limitations and Q2's spot focus is arguably more accurate, especially for off-centred subjects. 

Why not consider the original Q? The secondhand prices are very favourable, and the rendering is closer to the M10 than the Q2

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If you want AF for family pics.....and if the A7 does not satisfy you for that.........then your own logic says that you're going to have to sell your M. The question then becomes what do you buy to photograph your family. If it has to be a Leica, then it's probably the CL, TL2 or Q2. I suggest that, for rugrats, you need a zoom lens, which rules out the Q2 (yes, I know you can crop......but this is unsatisfactory). As there is no flippy screen on the CL, the TL2 is quite handy because of its large LCD and touch operation (IMO, for rugrats, the best images are those taken at their level, and holding a black object in front of your face can be disturbing for some kids). I found the TL2 AF slower than the CL, though, and having had both I sold the TL2 and enjoy the CL.

IQ? For fast moving family shots, bleeding edge IQ is irrelevant - you're not doing landscape or studio portraiture - so you just won't notice the reduced resolution of the CL compared to the Q2 - within certain limits (which the CL won't exceed) it's what the shots show, not the perfection of IQ that your family will like.

Forget about the rendering difference between your Summilux-M 35 and Q2 28 Summilux. In the long run of photographing kids, the focal length/angle of view/perspective will make much more of a difference to your perception of the shots. You will rarely make the same comparison as you made in a camera shop.

Your question about your images? You posted a text URL, not a hyperlink. I rarely follow other people's links to their images, and certainly not if I have to cut and paste the link into my browser. Meet us halfway, post the images in the forum and you'll get more comments.

Despite my didactic way of putting this, I emphasise this is all my opinion, and what I would do in your shoes. You may have a totally different way of looking at things. 

Edited by LocalHero1953
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Thanks for all your input. 

For now, I came to the conclusion that I cannot live without trying the Q2, and I cannot live without my M10. 

So I will go to the store and purchase a Q2 tomorrow. Use both for a week and see if I need both or if there's one I prefer over the other. 

I think that if I can get past my love for the look of the 35mm Lux, I am going to love everything about the Q2

Will keep you posted after I've had the experience of both. Maybe that'll be useful to someone. 

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