Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.5 ASPH II VM lens announcement

[raizans]

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Wait, did you see a product photo of it with a focus stick?

[BradS]

40 minutes ago, raizans said:

Wait, did you see a product photo of it with a focus stick?

 

No. I have not. I just threw that out as an example of unpleasant C-V ergonomics. It does however appear to have  the goofy bat wings aperture dial.

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[105012]

One thing I notice is that it appears only to have one focus scale (metric), good to see. And the focus distance markers (small marks below the numbers)! Still too short throw for easy pre-focus based on distance estimation...

Edited September 19, 2020 by 105012

[raizans]

13 hours ago, BradS said:

No. I have not. I just threw that out as an example of unpleasant C-V ergonomics. It does however appear to have  the goofy bat wings aperture dial.

I wish it had a focusing tab or stick! Then you'd be able to scale focus by feel.

I don't mind bat wings on compact lenses, though I prefer a full ribbed ring whenever possible.

[BrianS]

The wings on the aperture ring date back to the original Zeiss Sonnars from 1934. They make it easier to differentiate the aperture ring from the focus ring.

With 14 air-glass surfaces I would go with the multi-coated version of the lens.

[BradS]

3 hours ago, raizans said:

I wish it had a focusing tab or stick! Then you'd be able to scale focus by feel.

I don't mind bat wings on compact lenses, though I prefer a full ribbed ring whenever possible.

I do like a nice tab. I'm really not fond of the little stick but, I guess it is better than nothing. 

I really don't like the the bat wings on the aperture selection dial. I'd very very much prefer a low profile, knurled ring.

Too bad for me because I'm sure that the new 50/1.5 is a fantastic optic. As for modern 50mm optics go, I'm very happy with the 50/2 Planar ZM.

[TomB_tx]

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I also prefer a focusing tab, like on several of the Leitz 35 & 50 lenses from about 1960 on. Voigtlander has a nice one on the 35 Nokton 1.4. That lens also has the Aperture ring tabs - which copy the design of the original Summilux 35. I also like the aperture ring tabs (or ears) as you can tell the general aperture by the feel of the ear positions.

[Harpomatic]

If this new lens design has a performance at the level of the Nokton 50mm 1.5 VM v1 I just found my desert island lens. Smaller and great ergonomics for my needs, not that stupid thin scalloped ring that I hated using! I can’t wait to try one. I will definitely buy this!

Edited September 20, 2020 by Harpomatic

[sinjun]

On 9/20/2020 at 11:05 PM, Harpomatic said:

If this new lens design has a performance at the level of the Nokton 50mm 1.5 VM v1 I just found my desert island lens. Smaller and great ergonomics for my needs, not that stupid thin scalloped ring that I hated using! I can’t wait to try one. I will definitely buy this!

I also like the size and ergonomics. It would be very helpful if you could do another of your reviews when you get it!

[adan]

On 9/19/2020 at 3:26 AM, Robert Blanko said:

Looks almost like a Zeiss Sonnar clone... 🤔

On 9/19/2020 at 5:08 AM, tom.w.bn said:

As long as there is no sonnar inside, everything is good.

Which poses the question - "What (if anything) is a 'Sonnar?' "

The first thing to do is separate Sonnar as a basic lens structure or type vs. "Sonnar™" as a Zeiss trademark. Zeiss itself has produced many Sonnars™ (e.g. 250 Sonnar Superachromat, recent 135 f/2.0 SLR Sonnars™) over the past 50 years that are in no way "Sonnar-type" designs. Although once upon a time, there was a strong connection.

But today's Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar ZM is a throwback to the original Sonnar™-named Sonnar design from the 30s (with some updates - coatings at least).

Here is a good rundown on what the Sonnar-type is, compared to the more-common (and roughly symmetrical) Double-Gauss approach (as still used in today's non-APO 50mm Summicron, and Zeiss Planars of many types).

https://www.pencilofrays.com/double-gauss-sonnar-comparison/

A key point in lens design is that a designer can start with a classic lens layout (Sonnar, Tessar, DG, triplet, Hektor, etc.), and then start slicing and dicing the glass a little differently (glass characteristics, thicknesses, spacings, bending, splitting an element or combining two, adding an element (or 2) adding aspheric surfaces, etc.). And thus fix this or that fault in the pure original.

For example, the pre-ASPH 35 Summicrons came in 6, 7, and 8-element versions, and the pre-asph 35 Summilux has 7, while Cosina added an 8th to their similar Nokton f/1.4 (and changed one element's glass to remove focus-shift in the II version). But all are essentially still double-gauss designs - as is the Zeiss Planar, or the original Rudolph DG with only 4 elements.

In any event, the "modern" Cosina/Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5s  (I and II) do appear to be a bit more Sonnar-like in their core asymmetric layout and short length. But if one is dealing with 6-8 elements (plus aspherics) roughly divided on either side of the aperture, there is always room for "convergent evolution" in design such that the differences aren't always obvious in a schematic cross-section.

Anyway, having tried the "modern original" LTM Nokton and the ZM Sonnar, I prefer Cosina's own take on a 50 f/1.5. And now the M-mount v.2 allows focus to 0.7m (yay!) without the knife-edged focus-ring scallops (ugh!).

[Harpomatic]

12 hours ago, sinjun said:

I also like the size and ergonomics. It would be very helpful if you could do another of your reviews when you get it!

I will certainly review it as soon as possible! And thanks for saying that, it means a lot!

[rivi1969]

This Vintage line is stunning. I was planning to get a chrome 50mm f1.5 but this Nickel black paint is going to be the one. 

[adan]

6 hours ago, adan said:

But all are essentially still double-gauss designs - as is the Zeiss Planar, or the original Rudolph DG with only 4 elements.

oops - should read as

Quote

But all are essentially still double-gauss designs - as is the Zeiss Planar, or the original Clark DG (1888) with only 4 elements.

 

[Robert Blanko]

I‘m really curious about the optical performance as compared to that of the Zeiss 50 ZM Sonnar. The latter can create a nice 3D-Pop but also has the surprising property that the bokeh at f 1.5 appears less soft/more harsh than at 1.7 or 2.0. Some say, this is its character 😏. But if you know this, you can also intentionally use this effect. BTW, the Zeiss is also less sharp than the Summilux ASPH wide open.

[graphlex]

An unexpected virtue of the Sonnar is its very decent performance at infinity. That, along with modern color rendition and freedom from flare, makes it a good lens for landscapes. 

[kengai]

what did you think of the yield on M10?
what is the "brass" version mentioned in the first post?

[rramesh]

There are 3 versions.

• Silver weight 198 gm
• Black weight 198 gm
• Nickel Black Paint which seems to be nickel on brass weight 255 gm

[Guest]

I'm missing the LTM-version for Screw Mount M39.
This new smaller design would fit better on a vintage Barnack camera than the older one with its filter diameter E52.

Edited October 3, 2020 by mnutzer

[tom.w.bn]

Am 24.9.2020 um 14:22 schrieb Robert Blanko:

I‘m really curious about the optical performance as compared to that of the Zeiss 50 ZM Sonnar. The latter can create a nice 3D-Pop but also has the surprising property that the bokeh at f 1.5 appears less soft/more harsh than at 1.7 or 2.0. Some say, this is its character 😏. But if you know this, you can also intentionally use this effect. BTW, the Zeiss is also less sharp than the Summilux ASPH wide open.

Still don't know what people like about this lens. Worst lens I ever had in my life. With black/white film it was ok, focus shift is a serious issue though. With a digital colour sensor you see the full sepctrum of the old lens design for example the worst colour fringing ever in bright scenes. The lens was good for one thing. I leant that I don't like "character lenses".

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Robert Blanko]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb tom.w.bn:

Still don't know what people like about this lens. Worst lens I ever had in my life. With black/white film it was ok, focus shift is a serious issue though. With a digital colour sensor you see the full sepctrum of the old lens design for example the worst colour fringing ever in bright scenes. The lens was good for one thing. I leant that I don't like "character lenses".

Well, there are lenses that are even worse... 😉

Color fringing was never an issue for my type of photos and the lens can be optimized for mimimized focus shift at f1.5.

IMHO,  it‘s like painting an image with a certain type of brush - you know in advance that you cannot use a 5mm brush for sketching fine details, but nevertheless the overall picture may look great just because of the brush style.

Some people even spend about 6k for a Thambar to achieve „a carefully determined level of spherical aberrations – thus giving rise to the desired soft-focus effect“. 😁

One may find plenty of nice pictures taken with the Zeiss ZM Sonnar, for instance on Flickr.
 

Personally, I mostly prefer my Summilux ASPH, but sometimes also the Sonnar.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Robert Blanko