Best off camera flash/strobe solution for SL2?

[sillbeers15]

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11 hours ago, Photoworks said:

not sure why you need a TTL flash since the SL2 has an issue of not firing when shooting into a window or bright location.

I have been waiting for a firmware update for months now. I suppose with the lack of support of other flash brands and buggy SL2 it is only an available light camera or full manual flash

You must have messed up over settings.

I have been using the TTL function of the Leica flash system for years since SF58 till now with more sophisticated SFC1 off camera flash system. Working with M10, SL to SL2, never once have I encountered no flash firing due to bright background.

On the contrary I use flash to fill or over power the sun outdoors most of the time. Each time TTL & also HSS works consistently and well.

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

You must have messed up over settings.

I have been using the TTL function of the Leica flash system for years since SF58 till now with more sophisticated SFC1 off camera flash system. Working with M10, SL to SL2, never once have I encountered no flash firing due to bright background.

On the contrary I use flash to fill or over power the sun outdoors most of the time. Each time TTL & also HSS works consistently and well.

Actually I have reported it to Leica months ago and they confirmed it that it is a bug in SL2.

It is definitely not normal behavior 

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[FMB]

I think the issue happens if your camera is in Mode "A" when ambient light overpass the automatic reject of the previous checking the TTL flash does, ordering not to shoot the flash because it isn't able, not having enough power to,  reach the external lighting . Never if your camera order a fix speed to the flash in manual mode, then you need to meter the  ambient light and decide if the speed/aperture  under or over or right expose, balancing ambient with flash lightings.
 

Francisco.

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, FMB said:

I think the issue happens if your camera is in Mode "A" when ambient light overpass the automatic reject of the previous checking the TTL flash does, ordering not to shoot the flash because it isn't able, not having enough power to,  reach the external lighting . Never if your camera order a fix speed to the flash in manual mode, then you need to meter the  ambient light and decide if the speed/aperture  under or over or right expose, balancing ambient with flash lightings.
 

Francisco.

It happens in P and A mode on the camera, not because it can't but because it think the back light is strong.

the flash in A or ttl.

Exactly when the background is bright that you want a fill flash when positioning subject in the shade. It is not a matter that Leica should tell me that it is enough light, but more about the quality of light.

the reply from Leica "

many thanks for your feedback and i apologize for my late reply.

After consultation with our SL specialists, a bug could be present.

We will examine the behavior of the Leica SL2 together with the SF60 flash."

[sillbeers15]

18 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Actually I have reported it to Leica months ago and they confirmed it that it is a bug in SL2.

It is definitely not normal behavior 

I am speaking from my own usage experience. The bug I have encountered and feedback to Leica is that on HSS, only TTL works. Switching to Manual on HSS does not work.

[sillbeers15]

18 hours ago, Photoworks said:

It happens in P and A mode on the camera, not because it can't but because it think the back light is strong.

the flash in A or ttl.

Exactly when the background is bright that you want a fill flash when positioning subject in the shade. It is not a matter that Leica should tell me that it is enough light, but more about the quality of light.

the reply from Leica "

many thanks for your feedback and i apologize for my late reply.

After consultation with our SL specialists, a bug could be present.

We will examine the behavior of the Leica SL2 together with the SF60 flash."

Does it happen every time?

I ask b/c Leica’s reply is ‘could be’ and sounds not completely certain to be a bug.

[LocalHero1953]

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20 hours ago, Photoworks said:

It happens in P and A mode on the camera, not because it can't but because it think the back light is strong.

the flash in A or ttl.

Exactly when the background is bright that you want a fill flash when positioning subject in the shade. It is not a matter that Leica should tell me that it is enough light, but more about the quality of light.

the reply from Leica "

many thanks for your feedback and i apologize for my late reply.

After consultation with our SL specialists, a bug could be present.

We will examine the behavior of the Leica SL2 together with the SF60 flash."

This behaviour was the same on the SL, and, IIRC, the M240 as well - in A mode (I never used P). If the light is bright enough that automatic exposure tries to set a shutter speed too fast for flash, then the flash doesn't fire. I'm surprised Leica suggest it might be a bug; this is what I would expect as normal behaviour.

I might also want to use flash in such circumstances, but the work-around is to use S or M modes. 

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

This behaviour was the same on the SL, and, IIRC, the M240 as well - in A mode (I never used P). If the light is bright enough that automatic exposure tries to set a shutter speed too fast for flash, then the flash doesn't fire. I'm surprised Leica suggest it might be a bug; this is what I would expect as normal behaviour.

I might also want to use flash in such circumstances, but the work-around is to use S or M modes. 

I use other system and the flash will fire on Canon and Sony System. I find it a problem when shooting at 1/125 and f5.6  the flash fires if the window is not in and turn more to the window the flash will not fire. it is very unreliable . setting manual is the only option, in that case why do I pay $500 for a Leica flash?

[LocalHero1953]

15 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I use other system and the flash will fire on Canon and Sony System. I find it a problem when shooting at 1/125 and f5.6  the flash fires if the window is not in and turn more to the window the flash will not fire. it is very unreliable . setting manual is the only option, in that case why do I pay $500 for a Leica flash?

Well, I agree with you on the last part! I owned the SF64 and sold it, because the UI was too complicated. Nor do I ever use TTL - when I use flash it is with manual, off-camera settings. For that usage Leicas are fine - but that is not a demanding task: all the camera has to do is trigger the flash. I can understand your frustration, but I guess my years with Leica have taught me to expect very little from its flash. I suspect that even if Leica fix the behaviour you have found now, you will then find other limitations of Leica's flash system.  

[FMB]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I use other system and the flash will fire on Canon and Sony System. I find it a problem when shooting at 1/125 and f5.6  the flash fires if the window is not in and turn more to the window the flash will not fire. it is very unreliable . setting manual is the only option, in that case why do I pay $500 for a Leica flash?

I also agree that Leica behavior in flash software is "peculiar", but something in this issue is not so bad. Many times is useful oblige the photographers not to be so dependents of the algorithms. From time to time we must take decisions by our own as happens in this case.

You pay for a camera that does what you say to do. If you set your camera in Mode "A" you are saying the camera to work, first of all, with the aperture you have determined and, in second place, that the camera auto selects the speed for a good exposure of what its  meter sees and the meter sees a bright window and the speed will be short o long , according the aperture, in spite off what the flash obey: blinding light as object (a big window), as only reference, overpassing its power capacity (in the favorable case that the selected speed, ready to open the curtains,  will fit in its synchro range). For how long should be its action?
If someone wanted shot the flash, must either oblige the camera meter to look in spot manner ""the small face to lighten in the corner"" of the image or oblige the flash to fire expecting that the camera, in Mode Manual (you may decide in this situation), says "enough"!

Francisco.

[ynp]

On 9/15/2020 at 4:41 PM, Photoworks said:

not sure why you need a TTL flash since the SL2 has an issue of not firing when shooting into a window or bright location.

I have been waiting for a firmware update for months now. I suppose with the lack of support of other flash brands and buggy SL2 it is only an available light camera or full manual flash

If we are still talking about off-camera flash with the Leica controller or battery strobes, I cannot understand why anyone will use aperture priority mode or any auto metering, either in TTL or Manual Flash. 
 It’s much easier to make a snap in Auto, adjust the exposure for the foreground / background , switch on the manual camera mode and fixed ISO,  and than add flash accordingly. 
 

 

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, FMB said:

I also agree that Leica behavior in flash software is "peculiar", but something in this issue is not so bad. Many times is useful oblige the photographers not to be so dependents of the algorithms. From time to time we must take decisions by our own as happens in this case.

You pay for a camera that does what you say to do. If you set your camera in Mode "A" you are saying the camera to work, first of all, with the aperture you have determined and, in second place, that the camera auto selects the speed for a good exposure of what its  meter sees and the meter sees a bright window and the speed will be short o long , according the aperture, in spite off what the flash obey: blinding light as object (a big window), as only reference, overpassing its power capacity (in the favorable case that the selected speed, ready to open the curtains,  will fit in its synchro range). For how long should be its action?
If someone wanted shot the flash, must either oblige the camera meter to look in spot manner ""the small face to lighten in the corner"" of the image or oblige the flash to fire expecting that the camera, in Mode Manual (you may decide in this situation), says "enough"!

Francisco.

I get you point, but I can guarantee you that I have been doing it for a long time.

I am from the opinion that if the flash is on it should fire, if then it is not enough power for the exposure it is a photographers issue.

here is one sample shoot at Iso 2500, F8. I have this photo at 1/30, 1/60 1/125 and 1/250. shoot in P and A and M mode and flash FS-60 on TTL -2/3. I would aspect a flash here. this is with in the limit of what a flash can do.

All the pictures where I crop out the skyline the flash works. You are not going to tell me that this is not a problem. 

Many camera system measure the TTL output where you have placed the focus point and do a great job.

Francisco I would suggest you do I test for yourself and see it is a camera problem.

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[FMB]

I don't doubt that there are cameras solving this type of issue, please tell me how  many pages of their Menu do you need to study to be able to do things that in Mode "M" you could solve in a moment.

Sorry I am an old spanish amateur only seeing your photo i can't be able to  know if you have  used flash, if the flash fired or no, if you were happy with this burned sky and only needing  to lighten the couple at the bridge. I can only say that in "M" mode I have begun for knowing which setting (Aperture/speed) gave me the skyline exposure,  more or less over or under exposed, to achieve  an pleasant frame to softly lighten, afterwards, the couple with a flash. Please don't think I'm trying to give lessons, only to explain my point of view.

Regards,

 

Francisco.

[sillbeers15]

18 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I use other system and the flash will fire on Canon and Sony System. I find it a problem when shooting at 1/125 and f5.6  the flash fires if the window is not in and turn more to the window the flash will not fire. it is very unreliable . setting manual is the only option, in that case why do I pay $500 for a Leica flash?

In the case of SF60 & using the SFC-1, the HSS turns on automatically once shutter speed increases beyond the default flash sync speed which in many other camera makers, you need to set it in the camera manual.

[ionutn]

On 9/14/2020 at 12:15 PM, ynp said:

I wonder if the new Nissin MG8 works with the Leica CF1 controller. I use my SF60, but it’s too slow and cannot be used with the Nissin Powerpack.

The MG8 looks good and it is cheaper than the MG10.Three MGs  will cover my occasional HSS  and travel needs, the rest can be done by regular strobes. 

SF60 can be used with Nissin PS8 SONY power pack. 

[ynp]

23 minutes ago, ionutn said:

SF60 can be used with Nissin PS8 SONY power pack. 

Thank you very much. Good to know!

Is is faster recharging with the power pack?

Edited September 19, 2020 by ynp

[ionutn]

8 minutes ago, ynp said:

Thank you very much. Good to know!

Is is faster recharging with the power pack?

yes!  I think is 0.1 s, it's quite fast

[Photoworks]

36 minutes ago, ynp said:

Thank you very much. Good to know!

Is is faster recharging with the power pack?

I have used it with godox 960 battery pack and Sony cable

[sillbeers15]

On 9/18/2020 at 10:25 AM, sillbeers15 said:

In the case of SF60 & using the SFC-1, the HSS turns on automatically once shutter speed increases beyond the default flash sync speed which in many other camera makers, you need to set it in the camera manual.

There is no need to set it in manual for Leica. So I’m trying to say that different camera maker use different logic to set up TTL. There might be a limit which Leica set on auto exposure + flash which is not revealed and that includes ISO setting as it affects exposure. 
In using flash to fill situation, I would normally set background exposure to manual to fix the exposure I desire ( which is usually one stop lower on a backlit scene) and fill the flash using TTL.

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