Leica please give the SL2 the S5 AF & AFC updates

[SJH]

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5 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

DP review on SL2’s AFC is rubbish! Complaint was only EVF wobbling which does not affect AF success rate at all.

Don’t just read reviews & watch YouTube, go use the camera, play around with AF settings and decide for yourself.

Thank you Sillbeers15 and it sounds like we both have been using our SL2’s far more than watching YouTube, I’ve used it in the Caribbean in a tropical downpour, to the Alps, so over nearly a year I’ve got to play around quite a bit. For me it’s the fact that firstly using AFC doesn’t match Leica’s normal high standards in the sense that you get the ‘wobble’ in the viewfinder and your APO lenses sound like meat grinders. Fix this and just up the AFC a bit to S5 levels and it’s really the only substantive niggle I’ve had from using it since it was released.

[sillbeers15]

19 hours ago, SJH said:

Thank you Sillbeers15 and it sounds like we both have been using our SL2’s far more than watching YouTube, I’ve used it in the Caribbean in a tropical downpour, to the Alps, so over nearly a year I’ve got to play around quite a bit. For me it’s the fact that firstly using AFC doesn’t match Leica’s normal high standards in the sense that you get the ‘wobble’ in the viewfinder and your APO lenses sound like meat grinders. Fix this and just up the AFC a bit to S5 levels and it’s really the only substantive niggle I’ve had from using it since it was released.

I can live with the EVF focusing box display wobble as it does not have any impact to images taken on AF accuracy but I agree that Leica still has lots to improve on AFC.

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[SJH]

This article does some up the current situation with AFC and the experience pretty well, Leica just needs to assess these changes with the S5 (and possibly improve on them) and it will be a really good firmware update for us all. I think the article is fair and balanced https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0171197083/coming-into-focus-how-panasonic-s-dfd-gamble-may-yet-pay-off

[caissa]

On 9/16/2020 at 5:59 PM, Simone_DF said:

May be of interest to some of you:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0171197083/coming-into-focus-how-panasonic-s-dfd-gamble-may-yet-pay-off

TL;DR: Improvements are there but it's not enough. Panasonic needs more horsepower to make their stubborn choice of DFD-only AF work. In a few years they may be where the competition is right now, if customers haven't left.

If only horsepower is the problem, then the SL2 should have an advantage. AFAIK it has a stronger processor than the S1R and S1. And because the S5 is an entry camera it will probably have an even slower processor built in. So we all hope this will mean a clear step forward. The question remains, when ...

[caissa]

Some readers here are saying that the SL2 is disappointing (in AFc) and the Canon R5 is so great. Unfortunately this is usually based mainly on marketing brochures. And phantastic hit rates (close to 100% ) without changing the default settings are mentioned.

So here some additional information about real hit rates in a short AF test for sports photography. Interesting that even a R5 cannot be used without knowing anything (which some claim as the big advantage of non-Leica systems), but usually the camera modes have to be selected carefully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrZY0ei2unc

Most interesting I found that the tester did not recommend electronic shutter, even though the AF hit rate was the best. I would really like to see a similar test for other cameras ....

Edited September 18, 2020 by caissa

[Dr. G]

3 minutes ago, caissa said:

Some readers here are saying that the SL2 is disappointing and the Canon R5 is so great. Unfortunately this is usually based mainly on marketing brochures. And phantastic hit rates (close to 100% ) are mentioned.

So here some additional information about real hit rates in a short AF test for sports photography. Interesting that even a R5 cannot be used without knowing anything (which some claim as the big advantage of non-Leica systems), but usually the camera modes have to be selected carefully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrZY0ei2unc

 

I have the SL2 and the Sony a9ii.  The AF experience is vastly different.  That being said, I use the two cameras in very different ways.  

I will say, though, that regardless of what the EVF is showing it seems the shutter won't release on the SL2 unless focus is locked on in AFc.  So I haven't found that I have many focus misses with it.  I'm still trying to figure out if point or field focus is giving me better results, but that's a completely different discussion.

[caissa]

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Sorry, please delete. (wrong entry)

Edited September 18, 2020 by caissa

[caissa]

I think the resolution of the sensor plays a big role. I agree that the cameras are used in very different ways. So I think only similar cameras should be compared (like the R5 and SL2 with about 45 MP). The a9II is different (24 MP) and should maybe be compared with the Nikon D6 or 1DX III from Canon or the S5 (probably not very fair). Or you could use the SL2 in aps-c mode for a comparison.

The idea is probably to start with a smaller area (point) and if the target is too fast and you cannot keep up with it change to a larger area (field) that is easier to control. (Just my two cents.)

Edited September 18, 2020 by caissa

[Dr. G]

49 minutes ago, caissa said:

I think the resolution of the sensor plays a big role. I agree that the cameras are used in very different ways. So I think only similar cameras should be compared (like the R5 and SL2 with about 45 MP). The a9II is different (24 MP) and should maybe be compared with the Nikon D6 or 1DX III from Canon or the S5 (probably not very fair). Or you could use the SL2 in aps-c mode for a comparison.

The idea is probably to start with a smaller area (point) and if the target is too fast and you cannot keep up with it change to a larger area (field) that is easier to control. (Just my two cents.)

Understood, but even my a7r iv at 61mp is far closer to the a9ii than the SL2 when comparing AFc and tracking AF performance. 

As an aside, image quality with the SL2 and APO Summicron-SL lenses is way ahead of my Sony systems, though - especially for monchrome conversion of images.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Dr. G

[caissa]

How are hit rates with other 45 MP cameras ? Here a test with the Canon R5 for comparison. For me, what I learned from it is, it shows that high-res cameras have currently less than perfect AF systems and hit rates are not at 100%. Amazing also that often even electronic shutter is not to be recommended for action. (But the SL2 has probably a faster electronic shutter (rolling shutter) than the R5 (SL2 in FF 1/60 s, in aps-c less than 1/100 s; R5 probably about 1/30 s, I could not find the data anywhere) ).

So here a video with some additional information about real hit rates in a short AF test for sports photography. Interesting that even a R5 cannot be used without knowing anything about the AF tech (which some claim as the big advantage of non-Leica systems), but usually the camera modes also have to be selected carefully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrZY0ei2unc

Edited September 18, 2020 by caissa

[Gavin Cato]

I don't own a R5 but did have one for a day. It's miles ahead of the SL2 (unfortunately) in my little tests.

I do have a A9 and in my opinion its the leader. The full time afc on that thing is just magic.

I do prefer using the SL2 in general, especially for the lenses/IQ - but my life would really be made easier for me at weddings if they made some strides. I'm always a bit on edge when the bride is coming down aisle etc - on my Sony I wouldn't even think about it.

 

[sillbeers15]

10 hours ago, caissa said:

Some readers here are saying that the SL2 is disappointing (in AFc) and the Canon R5 is so great. Unfortunately this is usually based mainly on marketing brochures. And phantastic hit rates (close to 100% ) without changing the default settings are mentioned.

So here some additional information about real hit rates in a short AF test for sports photography. Interesting that even a R5 cannot be used without knowing anything (which some claim as the big advantage of non-Leica systems), but usually the camera modes have to be selected carefully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrZY0ei2unc

Most interesting I found that the tester did not recommend electronic shutter, even though the AF hit rate was the best. I would really like to see a similar test for other cameras ....

Thanks to recommending the video. I found it to be informative and non biased backed by lots of tangible data. I personally find videos with just the host opinion non value adding as the rational and settings not revealed. It is like listening to a fortune teller.

[sillbeers15]

10 hours ago, caissa said:

I think the resolution of the sensor plays a big role. I agree that the cameras are used in very different ways. So I think only similar cameras should be compared (like the R5 and SL2 with about 45 MP). The a9II is different (24 MP) and should maybe be compared with the Nikon D6 or 1DX III from Canon or the S5 (probably not very fair). Or you could use the SL2 in aps-c mode for a comparison.

The idea is probably to start with a smaller area (point) and if the target is too fast and you cannot keep up with it change to a larger area (field) that is easier to control. (Just my two cents.)

The processor’s processing power plays a big role especially on a >40MPX sensor as the AF calculations fight for processing power against imaging in AFC mode continues frame capturing.