New LUMIX S5 [MERGED]

[Chaemono]

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Same sensor as in the S1 but at ISO 640 using a more powerful amplifier which is higher gain and has additional noise cancellation circuits before the signal goes to the ADC. I bet DeNoise AI can treat the S1 files to match the high ISO performance of the S5. 

Not sure if ‘push-ability’ of files is affected, though. 

[ferfi]

Some wishes to Leica or some speculation..

After using my M8 for so many years, it’s time to get something new. 
I’m thinking about a Q2. But, to be honest, I fear missing the possibility to change lenses... So a Q2 with this possibility could be the Leica version of the S5. Hopefully with an at least 4MP viewfinder and the Q/TL way of handling!

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[iiiNelson]

22 hours ago, Malabito said:

Actually the s1 still offers many better options over the s5, and actually still some users buy s1, what makes sense is to kick out the s1r, it doesnt really offer amything, and now if you look in the stores, you dont even have it in stock, it appears discontinue or only under special demand. 

Who buys the s1r? no one really, at least the s1 is bought as a hybrid system.

I bought the S1R... It’s a more expensive camera though and so many Panasonic users are worried about video features. Many Leica users bought the S1R early on as well prior to the SL2 being released.

The S1R is a unique product in the sense that the only comparable L-mount option costs twice as much... PErhaps if there were a S5R then I’d agree with you. The S1 really is not Unique any longer as everything it offers the S1H can do better for the most part and the S5 can do the same for slightly less money if size of the S1 line is a concern. People bought the S1 due to the S1H not being out originally at launch and/or being unable to afford it. Now that the S5 is announced, you’d really need to be adverse to having the “free angle” screen (which I can understand), be really adverse to high megapixel cameras, or already be an owner of it... and I think they’re all great options that offer something slightly different but the S1 has the most overlap now IMO.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, ferfi said:

Some wishes to Leica or some speculation..

After using my M8 for so many years, it’s time to get something new. 
I’m thinking about a Q2. But, to be honest, I fear missing the possibility to change lenses... So a Q2 with this possibility could be the Leica version of the S5. Hopefully with an at least 4MP viewfinder and the Q/TL way of handling!

I wouldn't wait for it - you might grow a very long beard...

[Chaemono]

vor 57 Minuten schrieb iiiNelson:

I bought the S1R... It’s a more expensive camera though and so many Panasonic users are worried about video features. Many Leica users bought the S1R early on as well prior to the SL2 being released.

The S1R is a unique product in the sense that the only comparable L-mount option costs twice as much... PErhaps if there were a S5R then I’d agree with you. The S1 really is not Unique any longer as everything it offers the S1H can do better for the most part and the S5 can do the same for slightly less money if size of the S1 line is a concern. People bought the S1 due to the S1H not being out originally at launch and/or being unable to afford it. Now that the S5 is announced, you’d really need to be adverse to having the “free angle” screen (which I can understand), be really adverse to high megapixel cameras, or already be an owner of it... and I think they’re all great options that offer something slightly different but the S1 has the most overlap now IMO.

Don't underestimate the 'push-ability' of those 24 MPx S1 files vs. the S1R. See here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-zZCDLz/. The S5 is the only compact camera with a Sony BSI sensor that can take Leica SL lenses 'natively'.

Edit - Sigma fp can, too, but no IBIS.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Chaemono

[ferfi]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

I wouldn't wait for it - you might grow a very long beard...

The M8 is still fine 😉. 
I can wait 😴

[tom.w.bn]

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It's confirmed. A 2 MP EVF. That was cool in 2015 but today?

[jaapv]

Is it LCD or OLED? The latter might be OK despite a lower resolution. More important than MP count are the refresh rate and contrast. 

[Chaemono]

Same EVF specs as the α7 III but the S5's is better, at 1:06. 

 

[nicci78]

Leica CL has the same 2.35MP OLED EVF. Which is totally fine. 
What’s really important is the quality of the glass in front of the panel. 
 

[Simone_DF]

Looks like the AF has been greatly improved compared to the previous models. Hopefully some of these improvements will trickle down to the SL2?

 

[Archiver]

The S5 looks like it will suit my purposes and preferences beautifully. It's the same size and weight as a GH5, but offers S1 level stills and video quality. The aps-c crop at 4k 50p isn't a problem because I have a Sigma 18-35 aps-c lens already. Dual SD card slots means no need to buy expensive XQD cards, dual native ISO means cleeeaaaan high ISO performance, and Dual IS2 gives extra stabilization with matched Panasonic lenses.

Unlike the S1 family, this camera will be easy to use for travel, or sticking in a bag when you're out for lunch or dinner, social distancing permitting. It even has a slew of video features that you would not expect for an entry level camera, like 4:3 anamorphic mode with settings for all the common anamorphic ratios.

Right now, there's a preorder deal for the S5, 20-60mm lens and bonus Sigma 45mm f2.8. That's a super bargain. A simple but effective travel kit would be the 20-60 and a fast 35mm M mount lens, or the aforementioned Sigma 45. Having really enjoyed the GH3, GH4 and G9 for years, but wanting that extra image quality from full frame, this is the Panasonic I've been waiting for. I'm now glad that I held back from buying the S1H, as the S5 is far better for me.

[Rokkor]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Chaemono:

Don't underestimate the 'push-ability' of those 24 MPx S1 files vs. the S1R. See here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-zZCDLz/. The S5 is the only compact camera with a Sony BSI sensor that can take Leica SL lenses 'natively'.

Edit - Sigma fp can, too, but no IBIS.

Does the L-mount have also advantages adapting M or R lenses to the S5? So would the S5 be a better option compared to A7R or Nikon Z6/7?

Would be great to see the next CL with full frame.

 

Why cannot Panasonic or Fujifilm release a rangefinder with FF sensor? Seems Leica M is the only option.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Rokkor

[Chaemono]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Rokkor:

Does the L-mount have also advantages adapting M or R lenses to the S5? So would the S5 be a better option compared to A7R or Nikon Z6/7?

Would be great to see the next CL with full frame.

 

Why cannot Panasonic or Fujifilm release a rangefinder with FF sensor? Seems Leica M is the only option.

I haven’t seen side by side comparisons of the Lumix FF bodies with M lenses vs. the Sony or the Nikon cameras. There have been tests of the S1R with M lenses vs. SL2 and the SL2 did better partly due to thinner cover glass on the sensor. Sony has thicker cover glass than the Z6/7 but I haven’t found any information on the thickness of the cover glass in the S1/R. If Panasonic is smart, they should use a thinner cover glass in the S5.

[Rokkor]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Chaemono:

I haven’t seen side by side comparisons of the Lumix FF bodies with M lenses vs. the Sony or the Nikon cameras. There have been tests of the S1R with M lenses vs. SL2 and the SL2 did better partly due to thinner cover glass on the sensor. Sony has thicker cover glass than the Z6/7 but I haven’t found any information on the thickness of the cover glass in the S1/R. If Panasonic is smart, they should use a thinner cover glass in the S5.

And I think they do...let’s see.

[iiiNelson]

20 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Don't underestimate the 'push-ability' of those 24 MPx S1 files vs. the S1R. See here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-zZCDLz/. The S5 is the only compact camera with a Sony BSI sensor that can take Leica SL lenses 'natively'.

Edit - Sigma fp can, too, but no IBIS.

I considered both carefully and chose the S1R after about researching for about 8-10 months. It was my preference and it’s not to say that there’s anything wrong with the S1... 

[iiiNelson]

4 hours ago, Archiver said:

The S5 looks like it will suit my purposes and preferences beautifully. It's the same size and weight as a GH5, but offers S1 level stills and video quality. The aps-c crop at 4k 50p isn't a problem because I have a Sigma 18-35 aps-c lens already. Dual SD card slots means no need to buy expensive XQD cards, dual native ISO means cleeeaaaan high ISO performance, and Dual IS2 gives extra stabilization with matched Panasonic lenses.

Unlike the S1 family, this camera will be easy to use for travel, or sticking in a bag when you're out for lunch or dinner, social distancing permitting. It even has a slew of video features that you would not expect for an entry level camera, like 4:3 anamorphic mode with settings for all the common anamorphic ratios.

Right now, there's a preorder deal for the S5, 20-60mm lens and bonus Sigma 45mm f2.8. That's a super bargain. A simple but effective travel kit would be the 20-60 and a fast 35mm M mount lens, or the aforementioned Sigma 45. Having really enjoyed the GH3, GH4 and G9 for years, but wanting that extra image quality from full frame, this is the Panasonic I've been waiting for. I'm now glad that I held back from buying the S1H, as the S5 is far better for me.

Anamorphic mode will require the use of anamorphic lenses for the best performance and they aren’t small or inexpensive. It’s a nice to have but a feature I’m sure few (relatively speaking) will take advantage of.

There’s really no free lunch and the S1H is objectively better in every meaningful way IMO. You’re not getting All-I video modes, better build quality, better components, etc. on the S5. It’s a mid tier addition but it’s probable that the S1 line will receive comparable software upgrades if people need them. I purposely added my S1R because it was larger and found using my Sony bodies requires the use of a vertical grip when using the pro lenses eliminating the weight savings in reality. If one is going to use the native non-S Pro lenses then the S5 will be fine. Your Sigma will like be fine for shooting high frame rate video or staying in crop mode but you’re gonna lose continuous focus and full sensor coverage in FF (as you know). It’s a compromised situation IMO.

I’m happy for the S5 option and I’m considering one for my wife but I have little desire to add to my own kit. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Unless things changed, the Leica bodies are much better for M lenses than the S1. I have the S1 and SL2, and the SL2 is a lot better in the edges with most M lenses. The Panasonic is better than the Sony A7S and A7Rii were, but not as good as the SL2, which is in turn not as good as the M10. Despite having lower resolution than the SL2, the M does better with the more challenging lenses (wider, more retrofocal). The S1 does great with anything longer than 75mm, and well with certain other lenses. The 35mm 1.4 Summilux FLE does better than the 50mm Summilux ASPH, for example, so it is not as simple as to say everything wider than 50mm etc.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[lct]

4 hours ago, Rokkor said:

And I think they do...let’s see.

Any info (or rumor) about the thickness of the sensor stack? Just curious.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Stuart Richardson]

I would pose the question the other way. Why would they change? They did not do it in either the S1 or S1R. Quite the opposite, they put in an AA filter in the S1H, so it is thicker on that camera than the others. It seems unlikely to me that they would make the cover glass thinner, as they do not gain anything by it...they have to support L mount lenses only, not M or S. The S lenses work with AF and everything on the SL2, but are only manual focus on the Panasonic bodies. It seems unlikely to me that they would go out of their way to make a thinner cover glass on this body.