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Got my m10-R today. Sending it back tomorrow


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So, the OP bought the latest and greatest 40MP M camera; and it cost a lot; it’s an exclusive item from a famous brand. Not clear what other M cameras he has owned.  He finds old firmware (which makes him think old stock), an unexpected 400 or so shot count, and a bit of paint missing.  It has dented his confidence and disappointed him.  That’s understandable.

However, the reality is more prosaic.  Leica will have started production of the camera when the hardware was settled, knowing that it had the time to fine tune the firmware right up to the last minute (sometimes, disappointingly, it keeps correcting the firmware for some time).  What it doesn’t have the time to do, or perhaps the firmware development is so fluid, that there is no way to open eveyr box and update the firmware of every camera ready to go out.  That’s just the way it is.

The shot count is just normal - if I bought another Leica camera, and it had a genuine “0” shot count, I’d be more worried.

So, we’re left with a bit of paint missing.  Hmm, hardly earth shattering.  Yep, it’s a global crisis that Leica missed a bit of paint.  Two choices - (1) send it back to Leica in outrage, because it shouldn’t have happened (I doubt anyone disagrees that for such an expensive camera, it shouldn’t have happened), or (2) go to the local hardware store, buy a paint stick, and have the satisfaction of fixing it yourself, and having a perfect camera immediately.  I know which I would do.  If you wanted to vent, you could email Dr Kaufmann or Stefan Daniel and explain how terrible and upsetting all this has been.  They might send you a tee-shirt, or a discount voucher for your next “investment” in Leica.

I’d be out taking pictures with my fabulous new camera - even with the bit of paint missing.

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Such a flaw is unacceptable.  Demand that Leica sends the piece of missing paint to you immediately! Pete. 

Look at the ISO dial on his M10R in the photo here:  https://devinpense.smugmug.com/Forum-Shots/i-FXmWs4X Call me OCD, but I would exchange it over this flaw, too.  For $8295 American dollars, we are paying for - and should receive - perfection.  My M10 Monochrom was flawless when it arrived a month ago, as was my Q2 when it arrived last November, as was M-P 240 when it arrived a little over five years ago.  JMHO but there's no reason that @thedwp should accept this kind of flaw a

So, the OP bought the latest and greatest 40MP M camera; and it cost a lot; it’s an exclusive item from a famous brand. Not clear what other M cameras he has owned.  He finds old firmware (which makes him think old stock), an unexpected 400 or so shot count, and a bit of paint missing.  It has dented his confidence and disappointed him.  That’s understandable. However, the reality is more prosaic.  Leica will have started production of the camera when the hardware was settled, knowing that

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One camera, one small spot.  Leica has survived much worse:  Leica M8 thin IR filter, never solved, patched at best, the camera had great sales and the company prospered.  Leica M9, the camera was in great demand, lenses could not be purchased without great effort for over a year, the corrosion issue has the forum buzzing, a hot issue for Leica.  Leica agreed to fix the issue and it is only yesterday, 11 years after introduction they have suspended further sensor support.  Leica also made a huge blunder with the introduction of the X Vario, expectations were very high and disappointment reached a crescendo when introduced, calling a camera an "M" has special meaning.  The XV, while yielding excellent images was not an M.  Leica will survive this episode, in addition they've returned many items to me from repair looking pristine and well beyond my expectations.  They're a first rate company.    

 

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OK...Frankly, I don't buy the folks that say the missing paint wouldn't bother them upon receiving their new Leica.   When we went to real camera stores in the old days, would anyone have taken the M10R with the missing paint when they opened that box at the store?  Heck, the camera shop owner would probably have said, "OOPS, let me get another one!"  OR, "If you want this one I can knock [x] off the price."

But these are different times...

TBH, I do agree that many folks, me being one of them, would fill the engraving with paint because they don't want to be without the new toy/go through the hassle of sending it back.  Heck, I've disassembled brand new items to fix something internally because I didn't want to send it back...and we're talking about an item didn't work at all!  Not saying that's smart, just saying that's my usual reaction to receiving something that isn't right!  I hate going through the return/replacement process. 

IMO, the correct thing to do is to contact the seller and make them aware of it and go from there.  It's better that the seller/Leica be aware of it, even if the buyer decides to fix it themselves.  If it had been me I would have taken a pic, sent it to the seller/Leica and said I was going to fill the engraving myself.  After I did that, THEN I'd post it here!  :lol:  

But I WOULD notify them.  The paint shouldn't flake off. "It might have come off in shipping."  ???   If it's properly applied/correct paint, a bulldozer could run over the camera and that paint would still be in the engraving of the ISO button! ;)  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mikep996
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10 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

So, the OP bought the latest and greatest 40MP M camera; and it cost a lot; it’s an exclusive item from a famous brand. Not clear what other M cameras he has owned.  He finds old firmware (which makes him think old stock), an unexpected 400 or so shot count, and a bit of paint missing.  It has dented his confidence and disappointed him.  That’s understandable.

However, the reality is more prosaic.  Leica will have started production of the camera when the hardware was settled, knowing that it had the time to fine tune the firmware right up to the last minute (sometimes, disappointingly, it keeps correcting the firmware for some time).  What it doesn’t have the time to do, or perhaps the firmware development is so fluid, that there is no way to open eveyr box and update the firmware of every camera ready to go out.  That’s just the way it is.

The shot count is just normal - if I bought another Leica camera, and it had a genuine “0” shot count, I’d be more worried.

So, we’re left with a bit of paint missing.  Hmm, hardly earth shattering.  Yep, it’s a global crisis that Leica missed a bit of paint.  Two choices - (1) send it back to Leica in outrage, because it shouldn’t have happened (I doubt anyone disagrees that for such an expensive camera, it shouldn’t have happened), or (2) go to the local hardware store, buy a paint stick, and have the satisfaction of fixing it yourself, and having a perfect camera immediately.  I know which I would do.  If you wanted to vent, you could email Dr Kaufmann or Stefan Daniel and explain how terrible and upsetting all this has been.  They might send you a tee-shirt, or a discount voucher for your next “investment” in Leica.

I’d be out taking pictures with my fabulous new camera - even with the bit of paint missing.

I did buy the latest and greatest Leica. You’re right about that. 
 

However, you’re making a lot of assumptions here. I have 2 - m10’s, an m10-p, m10-M and Q-P, with multiple Leica lenses across the board. The cost for the m10-r is not an issue for me. I was thinking about buying two of them, but wanted to see what this new sensor was all about first.  It’s a new camera, and i was hoping (like a lot of people) for at least an equal or similar experience to the m10-M (which is awesome), and at the very least a quality piece of equipment. 

I’ve owned other systems as well and never have i ever received one with missing ‘paint’ or branding. 

And if you’ve ever even held an R which you obviously haven’t, you would know the paint on the ISO dial is not embossed or etched in the dial, and one can’t just stroll into Lowe’s and buy some White paint and q-tip and paint over it. In fact, you probably don’t even know the actual fonts on the R are different from other m10’s and M10-P’s.  I’ve had multiple new Leicas with 00000 count. The out of date firmware was not a big deal, been there done that. 

None of that has anything to do with the fact that if I spend $1,000 or $8,300 for a product, it should be as advertised, especially from a company that stands on the foundation of hand made, high-end products. If my latest Tesla was delivered with anything less than I was sold on, I will be at the dealership asking for what I paid for. 
 
The missing paint is not a global crisis. It’s a lack of attention to detail than what we expect from a company like Leica...if your Canon Rebel came in with a lose knob or missing branding, then maybe you’d feel the same way and return it to Best Buy. 

The R is on its way back to the Leica store. They will make it right. I don’t have the time to buy paint sticks to repaint an $8,300 camera.

Btw- i have plenty of Leica tee-shirts. 

Edited by thedwp
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3 hours ago, thedwp said:

I did buy the latest and greatest Leica. You’re right about that. 
 

However, you’re making a lot of assumptions here. I have 2 - m10’s, an m10-p, m10-M and Q-P, with multiple Leica lenses across the board. The cost for the m10-r is not an issue for me. I was thinking about buying two of them, but wanted to see what this new sensor was all about first.  It’s a new camera, and i was hoping (like a lot of people) for at least an equal or similar experience to the m10-M (which is awesome), and at the very least a quality piece of equipment. 

I’ve owned other systems as well and never have i ever received one with missing ‘paint’ or branding. 

And if you’ve ever even held an R which you obviously haven’t, you would know the paint on the ISO dial is not embossed or etched in the dial, and one can’t just stroll into Lowe’s and buy some White paint and q-tip and paint over it. In fact, you probably don’t even know the actual fonts on the R are different from other m10’s and M10-P’s.  I’ve had multiple new Leicas with 00000 count. The out of date firmware was not a big deal, been there done that. 

None of that has anything to do with the fact that if I spend $1,000 or $8,300 for a product, it should be as advertised, especially from a company that stands on the foundation of hand made, high-end products. If my latest Tesla was delivered with anything less than I was sold on, I will be at the dealership asking for what I paid for. 
 
The missing paint is not a global crisis. It’s a lack of attention to detail than what we expect from a company like Leica...if your Canon Rebel came in with a lose knob or missing branding, then maybe you’d feel the same way and return it to Best Buy. 

The R is on its way back to the Leica store. They will make it right. I don’t have the time to buy paint sticks to repaint an $8,300 camera.

Btw- i have plenty of Leica tee-shirts. 

I think you missed the point where I said - “Not clear what other M cameras he has owned”

Clearly you’re a very experienced M camera user, and Tesla owner.  You were quite right to send it back.

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7 hours ago, thedwp said:

 

And if you’ve ever even held an R which you obviously haven’t, you would know the paint on the ISO dial is not embossed or etched in the dial, and one can’t just stroll into Lowe’s and buy some White paint and q-tip and paint over it. In fact, you probably don’t even know the actual fonts on the R are different from other m10’s and M10-P’s.

Well the font shown on your picture is identical to my M10-D and it is clearly etched so I am not quite sure what you are getting at.

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8 hours ago, thedwp said:

I did buy the latest and greatest Leica. You’re right about that. 
 

However, you’re making a lot of assumptions here. I have 2 - m10’s, an m10-p, m10-M and Q-P, with multiple Leica lenses across the board. The cost for the m10-r is not an issue for me. I was thinking about buying two of them, but wanted to see what this new sensor was all about first.  It’s a new camera, and i was hoping (like a lot of people) for at least an equal or similar experience to the m10-M (which is awesome), and at the very least a quality piece of equipment. 

I’ve owned other systems as well and never have i ever received one with missing ‘paint’ or branding. 

And if you’ve ever even held an R which you obviously haven’t, you would know the paint on the ISO dial is not embossed or etched in the dial, and one can’t just stroll into Lowe’s and buy some White paint and q-tip and paint over it. In fact, you probably don’t even know the actual fonts on the R are different from other m10’s and M10-P’s.  I’ve had multiple new Leicas with 00000 count. The out of date firmware was not a big deal, been there done that. 

None of that has anything to do with the fact that if I spend $1,000 or $8,300 for a product, it should be as advertised, especially from a company that stands on the foundation of hand made, high-end products. If my latest Tesla was delivered with anything less than I was sold on, I will be at the dealership asking for what I paid for. 
 
The missing paint is not a global crisis. It’s a lack of attention to detail than what we expect from a company like Leica...if your Canon Rebel came in with a lose knob or missing branding, then maybe you’d feel the same way and return it to Best Buy. 

The R is on its way back to the Leica store. They will make it right. I don’t have the time to buy paint sticks to repaint an $8,300 camera.

Btw- i have plenty of Leica tee-shirts. 

Just send it back to Leica and ask for another one. Why the big deal? Sheesh.

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17 hours ago, thedwp said:

I did buy the latest and greatest Leica. You’re right about that. 
 

However, you’re making a lot of assumptions here. I have 2 - m10’s, an m10-p, m10-M and Q-P, with multiple Leica lenses across the board. The cost for the m10-r is not an issue for me. I was thinking about buying two of them, but wanted to see what this new sensor was all about first.  It’s a new camera, and i was hoping (like a lot of people) for at least an equal or similar experience to the m10-M (which is awesome), and at the very least a quality piece of equipment. 

I’ve owned other systems as well and never have i ever received one with missing ‘paint’ or branding. 

And if you’ve ever even held an R which you obviously haven’t, you would know the paint on the ISO dial is not embossed or etched in the dial, and one can’t just stroll into Lowe’s and buy some White paint and q-tip and paint over it. In fact, you probably don’t even know the actual fonts on the R are different from other m10’s and M10-P’s.  I’ve had multiple new Leicas with 00000 count. The out of date firmware was not a big deal, been there done that. 

None of that has anything to do with the fact that if I spend $1,000 or $8,300 for a product, it should be as advertised, especially from a company that stands on the foundation of hand made, high-end products. If my latest Tesla was delivered with anything less than I was sold on, I will be at the dealership asking for what I paid for. 
 
The missing paint is not a global crisis. It’s a lack of attention to detail than what we expect from a company like Leica...if your Canon Rebel came in with a lose knob or missing branding, then maybe you’d feel the same way and return it to Best Buy. 

The R is on its way back to the Leica store. They will make it right. I don’t have the time to buy paint sticks to repaint an $8,300 camera.

Btw- i have plenty of Leica tee-shirts. 

Oh boy... another "I need to show off what car I am driving" comment.

No wonder why many people talk the way they do about Leica camera owners.

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On 8/7/2020 at 4:07 AM, M10 for me said:

Thanks. Understand now. I have actually the exact same problem with my silver M10. Will go to look for a paint stick.

In a Hobby store you can get a small can (14mL e) Humbrol Enable Matt 34 White.

Using tiniest of amount on tip of fine toothpick fill in missing paint, wait 10 minutes and wipe over with thinners – all very gently. 

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5 hours ago, rivi1969 said:

Oh boy... another "I need to show off what car I am driving" comment.

No wonder why many people talk the way they do about Leica camera owners.

I don’t own a Tesla, I was making a point. So...

and you’re right about how people talk about Leica owners. It gets annoying...it’s a choice we all make, and some sacrifice more than other to own them. 

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb rivi1969:

Oh boy... another "I need to show off what car I am driving" comment.

No wonder why many people talk the way they do about Leica camera owners.

You didn't really understand what this was about, did you?

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23 hours ago, thedwp said:

 

And if you’ve ever even held an R which you obviously haven’t, you would know the paint on the ISO dial is not embossed or etched in the dial, and one can’t just stroll into Lowe’s and buy some White paint and q-tip and paint over it.

Well if the numbers are just printed onto the dial I think it's inevitable they will eventually get damaged and chipped off, so put it down to being a design feature, not a fault.

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6 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Well if the numbers are just printed onto the dial I think it's inevitable they will eventually get damaged and chipped off, so put it down to being a design feature, not a fault.

They are engraved.  Same font on the M10-R and the M10-D.  Can't tell about the M10, as I don't have it now and it had never occurred to me to take this picture of it.

P8050172 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

apologize for the repost, but click thru to see the engraving.

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