Comparison Shots M6 / M8, Noctilux @ 1.0

[ejcaliguri@comcast.net]

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Yeah - and there are Winners -- and there are Losers; because in order to have one, ya gotta have the other.... and if 'my way is better, than yours has to be worse'.

 

I'm a nature photographer (well - that's what I like to shoot mostly ) Not a pro, photography is a serious hobby for me (I'm a Veterinary Neuroscientist FWIW). Because of that, I shoot film (Leica M and R), digital (DMR, M8 and Nikon) and make Sun Prints with kids - some have a great eye and sense of the medium. And guess what - I love it ALL! Seen great digital work; have some original prints by Norbert Rosing (the Nat'l Geo nature photographer who shoots Leica R and Film ONLY) that are razor sharp at 24" x 36" of Polar Bears.

 

Workflow? That's in each of our minds. I think film is easier to workflow - no computer needed - but I need a great process guy and scanner operator for perfect results, Digital is fun and immediate with other ups and downs.

 

At the moment - I like working film better - it's comfy and secure. I am still learning all I can with digital. And mixing the two can be a blast! I never would have started underwater photography if I couldn't cheaply house a small digital camera for less than $300 USD total.

 

Personally, I like the Noctilux wide open with my M7 better than M8, and I like the WATE on either camera - it's SO versatile that way! And I can't wait to get hold of the new Velvia 50 once it hits B&H shelves!

 

So load your Leica with Silver or Sandisk, put some good glass on - and get out there!

[tomasis7]

it doesnt matter if it was shot at different distance. What you capture for whole image, it counts. I don't think that one should underrate missing 33% crop.

 

I consider Noctilux more as a tool for artists than workhorse for commercial stuffs. I have seen some shots from Guy Manusco at f1.0 and could see some unpleasant barrel bokeh. It'd be gone with Lux Ash, isn't?

 

I suppose that digital sensor is much more unforgiving for complicated designs then. When you look at crappy high grainy awful scans from films, you find the character of Nocti more shining as ever when film hides down weaknesses at f1.0!

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[tomasis7]

When I read Edward's post, I declare that the flame war is started now. I replace Vic who is injured now lol

[Guest guy_mancuso]

it doesnt matter if it was shot at different distance. What you capture for whole image, it counts. I don't think that one should underrate missing 33% crop.

 

I consider Noctilux more as a tool for artists than workhorse for commercial stuffs. I have seen some shots from Guy Manusco at f1.0 and could see some unpleasant barrel bokeh. It'd be gone with Lux Ash, isn't?

 

I suppose that digital sensor is much more unforgiving for complicated designs then. When you look at crappy high grainy awful scans from films, you find the character of Nocti more shining as ever when film hides down weaknesses at f1.0!

 

Well it has been said many times and even i have stayed away from the Nocti becuase the background can look really weird and distracting as hell. It really depends on what is in the OOF areas. you really have to get to understand this lens and what it is doing because a busy background or pattern stuff can just look nasty , than on the other hand look very pleasant. The one i posted earlier today is really right on the borderline of getting ugly. Here it is Ralph looks really nice but look at the foreground it is on the edge here. it looks okay but if i was at a diffeerent distance or direction it could have gone to hell and even this one it is right on the verge of getting weird

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Than you can get one that looks really nice in the OOF area's . this lens IMHO should be worn with kid gloves becuase it can be a thing of beauty or the ugly princess. Here just nice soft buttery background

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[Kent10D]

The one i posted earlier today is really right on the borderline of getting ugly. Here it is Ralph looks really nice but look at the foreground it is on the edge here. it looks okay but if i was at a diffeerent distance or direction it could have gone to hell and even this one it is right on the verge of getting weird

 

Just an opinion Guy, but I think that any discomfort you might feel regarding the foreground of this shot is just because there's so much of it. A teeny crop would probably bring everything into balance.

 

Of course, if you don't want to throw out any of those lovely M8 pixels ... never mind.

And I do understand that you're just trying to make a point.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Honestly i don't think film or digital makes any difference overall with this lens you just need to careful were you apply it and when. BTW i am not here for a film or digital debate , i loved film when i used it , i just don't get paid for the film lag time anymore from clients. They know digital is out there and demand it. Need to follow the bread crumbs. I loved Kodachrome as much as anyone. that is all i shot for years along with Tri-x. Glad folks are able to shoot the stuff though it was a fun time for me and less time punching keys

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Just an opinion Guy, but I think that any discomfort you might feel regarding the foreground of this shot is just because there's so much of it. A teeny crop would probably bring everything into balance.

 

Of course, if you don't want to throw out any of those lovely M8 pixels ... never mind.

And I do understand that you're just trying to make a point.

 

True absolutely i could crop some of it out , just kind of like the space around him but you see what i was driving at. It's a love hate relationship with this lens , like my marriage. LOL

 

For me when i really need the shot no matter what i would grab the Lux but this has a place just be careful it is not the holy grail everytime.

[ejcaliguri@comcast.net]

OH NO!!! What did I start?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Nothing were just having some Nocti fun. It really is one of those lenses you can talk a lot about because it is strange and wonderful at the same time. Frankly damn expensive too.

 

Oh the film vs digital thing been going on for years , not to worry. LOL

[mwilliamsphotography]

If I find time today, I think I'll post an excellent MP3 film shot with a nice Imacon 949 scan, and a crappy, waxey looking M8 digital rendering of the same subject ... it'll just be a quick unscientific joke for all to enjoy ... that'll still be "interesting" right?

 

I doubt it : -)

[carstenw]

Sure it will!

[Kent10D]

If I find time today, I think I'll post an excellent MP3 film shot with a nice Imacon 949 scan, and a crappy, waxey looking M8 digital rendering of the same subject ... it'll just be a quick unscientific joke for all to enjoy ... that'll still be "interesting" right?

I doubt it : -)

 

Are you kidding? I, for one, would love to see that, and I'm sure others would as well.

If you can (and I note that you do have an M3 as well as an M8), please do!

 

Seriously. It would be much appreciated.

[tomasis7]

fotografz, I would love to see shoots too.

 

guy mancuso, I agree with your observations. It is the first your image I was thinking about when I mentioned "barrel" bokeh. Other two images look as some nice Lux shots at f1.4 on slides. Are those last images shot at wide aperture or some stop down? DOF look like not quite thin enough and I'm aware that this smaller m8 sensor gets a bit more dof compared to film. I'm not sure how much exactly. Maybe two thirds of one stop. But pictures from M8 don't convince me yet of this.

 

It'd be very interesting to see Nocti f1 shots at full size 36x24mm digital sensor when it is available then I could observe how digital sensor and film emulsions react to light and special fingerpaints as Noctilux's.

 

I still believe that corners outside centrer circle (66%) of image can make differences for fingerpaint such as the bokeh when it alters to f1.2 and vignetting. I see vignetting as positive addition to imagery rather than the opposite.

 

At other words, I don't believe that you're seing the same fingerprint of Nocti from both M8 file and film. They are way too different! Even on small crapy web jpeg files

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Tomas i maybe stopped down a touch , i simply can't remember though . I wish I still had the lens to test it now against my 50 lux. i would love to see a side by side on the M8 which I am not sure we have seen yet. Mine is on order and i have a long wait for it to come

[gwelland]

Mine is on order and i have a long wait for it to come

 

Guy, is it on a long waitlist due to the discount or are they just generally on a long, long waitlist?

 

I'm tempted to order a new one through my local Leica dealer - taking a few months to arrive might be desirable if that's how long it's taking.

 

Anyone got any delivery feedback from Leica/dealers on their orders?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

They do have a long wait list on this lens. I think many collectors are afraid it may get discontinued at some point, plus a lot of 30 percent off vouchers and it is a nice lens on the M8 and maybe whatever the future brings. i think these all contribute to the long delay . Not to mention it takes awhile to make them and the cooling of the glass. Which takes a long time , there was info on the making of this lens awhile back . Would be interesting to read that again but I remember them using a platinum mold because of such intense heat to melt the raw elements.

[leicar7]

It's probably not a big deal on many pix, but the DOF of any lens at any aperture is also 1.3x what it is on a FF. So any comparison pix will have that to start from.

 

But also, wouldn't the Noc have a pretty hellacious focus shift when stopping down? No floating elements to compensate.

[carstenw]

Some Noctiluxes have had focus shift, but others haven't, just like the 35 Lux Asph. It isn't inherent in the design, but the tolerances don't seem to guarantee that it won't be present.

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[charlesphoto99]

Honestly i don't think film or digital makes any difference overall with this lens you just need to careful were you apply it and when. BTW i am not here for a film or digital debate , i loved film when i used it , i just don't get paid for the film lag time anymore from clients. They know digital is out there and demand it. Need to follow the bread crumbs. I loved Kodachrome as much as anyone. that is all i shot for years along with Tri-x. Glad folks are able to shoot the stuff though it was a fun time for me and less time punching keys

 

Funny, I still get asked by some clients to shoot film, even when I'd rather shoot digital. And then there's jobs I think would be better on film and the client insists on digital even when time and budget aren't a concern. They just think digital is "better". Goes to show it's hard to generalise about anything.