M10 (and M10D) Discontinued [Merged]

[Jeff S]

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And a price drop for the M10-P

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/07/leica-m10-p-price-reduced-m10-m10-d-discontinued/

Jeff

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Mikep996]

Makes sense to me - there are too many "M10's"  For that matter, I would have expected a 40+ MP Leica M to be the M11.  But I guess they could just keep adding a different letter to" M10" and not have to worry about numerals for the next 50 years!  

[Adam Bonn]

Sounds like the next release will be some sort of M10R-P perhaps?

After that it might be M11 time..

Then an M10 M-E type camera, which should basically be an M10 but painted grey!

 

[rsolomon]

The naming convention is hokey! The jump from M9 to M240 made sense at the time, BUT then back to M10, then M10-R. 
 

I guess is part of maintaining a ‘sub-culture’ following because these names have no structure..... R for resolution? 
 

my advice would have been stick to M, then use blank, M for mono, D for no LCD, P, S for slim 

type 24, 24M, 24 SP, 24D, 24S, 24 SP, type 40, 40M, 40D etc. 
 

but hey what do I know about marketing Leica products- I just a lens lover. 

[adan]

As Jeff knows well, but maybe not everyone:

Leica is still a pretty small company, and there are only so many balls it can keep in the air at once. It gets around that, to some extent, by building in batches (this month M10-Rs, next month SL2s, the month after that Q2s) and hoping the scheduling keeps up with sales so they don't run out of anything in between batches.

(Same for lenses - every so often 90 APO-Summicrons  or 35 FLEs temporarily become Unobtanium if a batch happens to sell out faster than expected).

Same for their suppliers. Realistically, the 24Mp sensor has probably been out of production for months (with a supply of spares held in reserve).

It should be noted that Leica keeps recently-defunct items on their web site in support of some dealers (including their own Boutiques) - who may not sell their last "new" M246 or M-E or whatever for several years. Leicas don't sell like hotcakes. And of course for support with firmware and such.

It should also be noted that Leica found out most of the market was not impressed with the unnumbered-camera approach - we users just used the in-house Typ numbers instead (M240, M246, M262, M262D) because we wanted to specifiy which exact sensor/Mpixels/viewfinder/CPU generation was involved.

Advertise a used MM - is it an MM based on an M9 (CCD), or an MM based on an M(240) or an MM based on the M10-R (or vice-versa)? They are not the same products, and not going to be identically functional in a host of ways.

[Mikep996]

Well, I'm totally in favor of M + number so the R, as I said earlier, should (IMO) have been the M11.  The next revision (other than firmware) should be an M12, etc.  I'm OK with the "M" added on for monochrome version if they want to continue with that.  But the rest of it, nah, I don't get it.  Much as I like the idea of the D version, I don't really think that they should be making all the variants as 'normal' production.  Special order, sure!  But normal production should be, for example, M11 and M11M.  

OTOH, I am aware that Leica has never asked me what they should do and obviously they are doing just fine!  With my lifelong purchasing experience pretty much being "Buy high; Sell low," they probably would do best by continuing to not ask me. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Mikep996

[Adam Bonn]

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As someone who’s Leica buying budget amounts too approved used stock from official stores of models that are no longer in production...

....I’m really excited by this news 😁

[adan]

As someone who got an M10 in 2017 for the full price of - $6595 (!) - I can wait to upgrade mine for a few years.

But the M10 had a good 3.5-year run, which is better than average for M-digitals, and the high-Mpixels folks have been waiting and waiting and waiting already....

[Adam Bonn]

30 minutes ago, adan said:

As someone who got an M10 in 2017 for the full price of - $6595 (!) - I can wait to upgrade mine for a few years.

But the M10 had a good 3.5-year run, which is better than average for M-digitals, and the high-Mpixels folks have been waiting and waiting and waiting already....

Makes me speculate that the M11 (sic?) might be more about upgrades to the processor, battery life, connectivity and card write speeds than it will be about the sensor...

...either that or there’s now 3 years of M10R, R-P, R-D to get through before the “M11”

(If so the product page on Leica’s site is going to read like the cast of Star Wars droids 😁)

[poli]

I hope in the midst of it all, the concept of a screenless digital will stay in Leica's line up of M camera's. 

[evikne]

1 hour ago, poli said:

I hope in the midst of it all, the concept of a screenless digital will stay in Leica's line up of M camera's. 

I hope that too. My next camera will definitely be a D model. If not a used M10-D, I can wait for an M11-D. There are a couple of things I hope they have fixed by then, primarily a much faster (Bluetooth 5) smartphone connection. But I cross my fingers that they keep the advance lever.

[T25UFO]

Leica have over stretched in the past - an example being the a la carte program.  A great idea, but can a relatively small company really provide such a customised service?  A rhetorical question because we know the answer!  I also question the value of a base model followed some months later by a P model with minor upgrades; in the example of the Q it was basically cosmetic.

Whether we like it or not, the camera industry is going down the increased mega pixels route, so when the M11 eventually appears, I very much doubt we will see a lower MPX option.  The Monochrom and screen less options are both niche - they have a following, but Leica should know what customer demand will be and tailor manufacture and supply accordingly.

Of course, 'armchair marketing' is easy and many companies see the value in multiple variants.  Just look at Porsche with the 911: a base model Carrera, S, GTS, Turbo, Turbo S, a convertible or coupe in all these options and a Targa as well.  But Porsche is a slightly larger company with a little more money in the bank, so perhaps not a good reason for Leica to imitate!

[Tailwagger]

'A rose by any other name...'

 In my estimation, traditionally Leica changes the M's numeric designation when they significantly alter the physical body. The M10 designation remains, because the shell is the same one initially introduced in 2017.  Given the clamor for IBIS coupled to statements that it would be worthwhile, but the technology doesn't currently fit within current packaging constraints, there is some impetus for altering the physical packaging, which if necessary,  I would expect it would be called an M11. OTOH, perhaps the M10 is in the sweet spot and that designation with a letter will remain in force, similarly to the M3, for a long to come.

[Raid Amin]

Will there be Leica support in the coming years for a regular M 10?

[jdlaing]

They always carry support for a number of years after discontinuing a camera.

[astrostl]

The M10-P is incredibly similar and still active, and they recently announced continued support for 24MP in general. I expect no issues.

[Raid Amin]

I hope that both of you are right. Thanks for the feedback. It is annoying to see Leica drop such cameras so quickly.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Actually, it is impressive to see Leica move up to higher resolution so quickly.  And I don't think they are dropping the 24 MPx products (although of the M10, M10-D and M10-P it is likely that you will find the M10-P shipping while the others come out of old stock).

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[Guest]

@Raid, only M10 silver and M10-D have been discontinued of the M10 family.
So there are still M10 black, M10-P silver, black, (and some green) available, all using the 24 MP sensor.
In general Leica insured about 10 years of post-production service for digital M.
Take a look at the M9, on which Leica has just stopped changing defective sensors because spare parts are missing.

Stefan Daniel said at a presentation of the new M10-R, that Leica is now calculating what might be better for customers (and of course for Leica), to offer an upgrade for the M10 with the new 40 MP sensor or selling the M10 and buying a new M10-R.

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by mnutzer

[Michael Markey]

This was posted oh Red Dot forum although its odd that there has been no mention (that I can find ) here .

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/07/leica-m10-p-price-reduced-m10-m10-d-discontinued/