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jowatt

Apo-Summicron vs regular Summicron 50?

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This seems like such an obvious comparison to make yet I can't find any direct comparison of these 2 lenses. I know it's not fair since the Apo is so much more expensive but I am just curious what kind of improvements you get at this price since the regular Summicron 50 is already an excellent lens.

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Here à little and simple lense comparison done by my self. It is Not a serious test but it may give an idea. Big difference in low light and / or at f2. 0. At f5. 6 and good light the difference in normal conditions are less important 

https://siggigun.wordpress.com/2019/02/21/summicron-f2-0-50mm-ii-oder-apo-summicron-m-f2-0-50mm-asph/

 

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2 hours ago, jowatt said:

This seems like such an obvious comparison to make yet I can't find any direct comparison of these 2 lenses. I know it's not fair since the Apo is so much more expensive but I am just curious what kind of improvements you get at this price since the regular Summicron 50 is already an excellent lens.

I suggest you ask yourself where does your Summicron leave you wanting. And is the remedy worth the extra cost to you. If it is and your  budget allows, you have your answer.

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7 hours ago, jowatt said:

This seems like such an obvious comparison to make yet I can't find any direct comparison of these 2 lenses. I know it's not fair since the Apo is so much more expensive but I am just curious what kind of improvements you get at this price since the regular Summicron 50 is already an excellent lens.

I agree, I think it would be useful to see examples of the delta between the 50 M APO and the v5 Summicron in terms of image qualities wide open, stripped down, etc.. especially since the cost difference is so significant. As a happy owner of a v5 Cron, I always want to see what I’m missing out on 🙂 and if I need to start looking in to picking up an APO. Comparing the MTFs of the lenses, the APO looks to be a stunning lens across the spectrum but I would love to see some real world examples. Thanks.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RMF said:

but I would love to see some real world examples

You will find many ' real world examples ' on this and other Forums, but I don't think it will help you a lot as the differences will not be apparent in on-line images - certainly not from f5.6 onwards.

Niether do I think you will understand the full capabilities of the APO in the data alone,. The full potential only becomes apparent on high mp sensors and prints. It is no coincidence the lens was launched at the same time as the second generation Monochrom.

If you want a lens that just performs and performs, with perfect colour transmission and no artefacts and is so clear it 'never gets in the way' you will appreciate the APO.

One of our members did an excellent side by side review when the lens launched if you search for it, and although not a comparison you might find this thread helpful 

See also post #47 in the above thread.

Edited by pedaes

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Differences i feel have nothing to do with sensor size. The 50/2 apo is a lens one can use at f/2 the same way as other apertures aside from DoF. No significant compromise there. Can stay at f/2 all the time if you wish so. From f/2.8 to f/5.6 main difference is sharpness at edges and corners. It has also less field curvature and no significant focus shift. Less flare when strong light sources are outside the frame too. Otherwise its built-in hood is more handy but is not more efficient than the v5's. The lens is also significantly bigger but remains more compact than both 50/1.4 asph and 50/1.4 pre-asph M lenses, let alone R and L ones. As for character, it has little of it unless its character is to have none but the same can be said about high end solid state amplifiers. Adds nothing to the music so to speak. 

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40 minutes ago, lct said:

As for character, it has little of it unless its character is to have none but the same can be said about high end solid state amplifiers. Adds nothing to the music so to speak. 

Or high end studio monitor speakers; transparent and designed to accurately reveal source material without coloration.  A real achievement given the compactness.  
 

Jeff

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3 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Or high end studio monitor speakers; transparent and designed to accurately reveal source material without coloration.  

I am a fan (Quested v2108).

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19 hours ago, SiggiGun said:

Here à little and simple lense comparison done by my self. It is Not a serious test but it may give an idea. Big difference in low light and / or at f2. 0. At f5. 6 and good light the difference in normal conditions are less important 

https://siggigun.wordpress.com/2019/02/21/summicron-f2-0-50mm-ii-oder-apo-summicron-m-f2-0-50mm-asph/

 

Is it really that much better in low light as per the picture of the shop front? I don’t particularly care for the super duper resolution, but low light performance is paramount. Do you have other examples of such comparisons?

 

 Alex 

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I would not go by those tests alone. The exposure is different and the F2 image from the regular summicron looks like there has been camera shake. If your main concern is low light, the extra stop in the 1.4 Summilux is likely to be more useful and cheaper than the 50mm APO Summicron. The Noctilux is even faster, but is obviously an extremely large and expensive lens.

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Attention ! Sorry my message was not clear! I compared the Summicron II from 1956! And not the current Summicron-M! Of course, I suppose the current version is much better. However, modern lenses, in my experience, show there difference (or quality) at f2. 0 and in low light. I have the same experience with the old 21 Elmarit and the new SEM. 

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5 minutes ago, SiggiGun said:

Attention ! Sorry my message was not clear! I compared the Summicron II from 1956! And not the current Summicron-M! Of course, I suppose the current version is much better. However, modern lenses, in my experience, show there difference (or quality) at f2. 0 and in low light. I have the same experience with the old 21 Elmarit and the new SEM. 

Thank you for the clarification... I now have some money to spend on beer!!!

 

alex

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I went through this decision process for about a month when I owned both lenses. I did multiple comparison tests and my conclusion was that both lenses are superb. No surprise. The main differences I was able to discern were that the APO was tack sharp corner to corner and edge to edge even wide open whereas the standard Summicron was a tad soft at the corners, and the APO delivered more native contrast. When pixel peeping, which I don't like to do, the APO was clearly superior at resolving. I ended up selling my standard Summicron.

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1 more argumentv if you are going to take the M10-R or SL2, and you will enlarge at greater scales, the Apo is without doubt the 1 joice. 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, SiggiGun said:

1 more argumentv if you are going to take the M10-R or SL2, and you will enlarge at greater scales, the Apo is without doubt the 1 joice. 

 

Hmmm... I have the M10-R... And I do enlarge 150cm... I may have to take the plunge eventually...

 

Alex

Edited by mustafasoleiman

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On 8/2/2020 at 2:17 PM, fotografr said:

I went through this decision process for about a month when I owned both lenses. I did multiple comparison tests and my conclusion was that both lenses are superb. No surprise. The main differences I was able to discern were that the APO was tack sharp corner to corner and edge to edge even wide open whereas the standard Summicron was a tad soft at the corners, and the APO delivered more native contrast. When pixel peeping, which I don't like to do, the APO was clearly superior at resolving. I ended up selling my standard Summicron.

This justifies my own APO.

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Posted (edited)

This is a funny thread. I really like those "this equipment versus that equipment-threads" in this forum.

You can sit from now until doomsday and compare and contrast this and that Leica-gear, and you will not even be close to being finish comparing - and wanting the gear you do not have.

Go out and borrow or rent the lens, you're wanting. Test and shoot extensively as much as you can in the period. If you're happy, then buy it. It isn't more complicated than that.

Be happy with your purchase, and don't keep on looking and searching on the web and forums for what this lens and/or gear can do compared with this and that.

Enjoy the beauty of what you are doing with your own equipment, and not what you are not doing and creating with the equipment that you do not own.

I've been there myself; comparing this and that, reading tests and reviews, pixel peeping, looking for photographs taken with the respective equipment and imaging what and how I can use it. And not least what I could have done in this or that situation if only I was having the gear I didn't have.

Don't!

Enjoy what you have, and go out and create work.

Edited by BjarniM

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Posted (edited)

I owned both lenses and tested them both on a tripod with my low resolution M240.

The APO is a very “reliable” lens IMHO.
 

In that regard, I mean the APO has 


- minimal field curvature (whereas my copy of the v5 needed a LOT of stopping down for distant landscapes to get edge-to-edge sharpness)

- good flare control (whereas my copy of the v5 commonly had veiling flare)

- build quality of the APO is superb. Dense, precise, tight mechanics

Resolution - ie fine detail capture - in the middle of the image with the M240 looked pretty much 100% identical at say f5.6, even when resampling in post to larger (say) 45” wide image at 300dpi.  I have used the APO on the M 246 Monochrom, and here the resolution differences between the lenses was slightly more noticeable ... BUT 

- what I thought was more noticeable was the APO’s higher native contrast, and higher acuity (so needs less sharpening in post than the v5). These factors give the impression of the APO having higher sharpness vs the v5, even though fine detail capture (ie resolution) was the same at say f5.6 on an M240.
 

I would imagine the differences between the 2 lenses is more obvious in terms of resolution with a M10R or M10M, compared to what I saw with my M240 ....but that’s only a guess.

I ended up selling both lenses, and moving to an SL2 and SL 50 APO. The M 50 APO is excellent in terms of image quality ..... when considering the physical constraints of achieving this in its small size ...... but IMHO the image quality of an SL prime is that much better perhaps because the size constraint doesn’t exist ........
 

 

Edited by Jon Warwick

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1 hour ago, BjarniM said:

I've been there myself; comparing this and that, reading tests and reviews, pixel peeping, looking for photographs taken with the respective equipment and imaging what and how I can use it.

Reason why you purchased a 50/2 apo i guess.

1 hour ago, BjarniM said:

Don't!

Do you mean you regret your purchase?

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1 hour ago, lct said:

Reason why you purchased a 50/2 apo i guess.

Do you mean you regret your purchase?

Nope. I looked in the catalogue on Leica's website, saw the description, and decided to take it to real life, what Leica claimed. I rented it for two days, looked through the pictures for some days and I was sold,  and ended up buying the lens.

No, I never have regretted buying the lens. Never.

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