Leica M10-R Freezing Issues

[jdlaing]

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It’s not common.

[MrFriendly]

On 11/21/2020 at 4:45 PM, jdlaing said:

It’s not common.

For people from the older generations who are not  able to saturate the processing power of the camera because of their slow reflexes, then I suppose it's not that common.  Interesting enough, the technician in New Jersey  I spoke to, one of his recommendations was to try a slower SD cards (95mb/s) to see if it would make a difference.  The slower SD cards might have decreased the likelihood of triggering the bug, but eventually my M10-P froze again.

For hipsters like me from the digital age who like instant feedback and are prone to chimping, then it's a lot more common.  On average it take me 10 to 20 minutes before my M freezes.

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[jdlaing]

It’s user error and not common.

[mujk]

During the almost three years I have had my M10 it may have frozen once, and that was caused by the Viso 020. Otherwise it has been extremely stable with several different fw versions. So it's definitely not a common problem across all models.

I use several other digital cameras in parallel with the M10 and although I'm 61, I would not say that I'm a particularly "slow" user. Even if I rarely use continous mode, I sometimes manage to fill up the buffer. I use several different versions of SanDisk Extreme cards, 32 and 64GB.

[EricS]

My M10-R often freezes after using Leica Fotos Wifi. No way to be able to turn it off expect by removing the battery.

[John Miranda]

My M10M froze for the first time after ~2k shots.  By freeze I mean the live view was stuck on, the shutter release didn't work, and turning the camera off didn't seem to affect anything. (or back on).  I didn't remove the battery, but removed the bottom plate while the switch was positioned in off, and that seemed recovered the camera.  I shot a few more pictures and all was fine.  No Visoflex.  Using a Leica 21mm lens.  Temperature was 41F, so chilly but not freezing.  Nothing else that I can recall was unusual.

[RagingCANE]

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My M10-R just started having issues. The buttons only work with a long press and the touchscreen doesn't work at all. I have to hold the buttons down to vie any menus or images. Very disappointed and nothing I have tried worked.

[jdlaing]

2 hours ago, RagingCANE said:

My M10-R just started having issues. The buttons only work with a long press and the touchscreen doesn't work at all. I have to hold the buttons down to vie any menus or images. Very disappointed and nothing I have tried worked.

Try a reset.

[RagingCANE]

13 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Try a reset.

I did, twice. Nothing works. 

[Cobram]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 12:29 PM, kegon said:

Well this reflects my experiences so far... Biggest exception from this rule was a Mercedes, I drove... Worst car I ever had... Leica seems to be the second exception from this rule. When it comes to beer, I agree... But being a German, I have a special perception of quality, when it comes to beer 😉 

I have posted a comment in the past regarding quality, globalisation, mass consumer products etc... which ended in disputes and angry replies. I'm really sorry and wish I never did it. I realised internet communication (forums, social media,...) is very very different to personal one.

At the end I think Leica is no different to any other company regarding quality of their products. I came from Fuji X system primarly due to service problems and realised Leica is even worse in this regard 🙂 (much worse in fact). But at the end we buy and use Leica because of THE experience, manual controls and great lenses. If this justifies high price tag I don't know. Definetely Leica Achilles heel is service department. Sometimes THE experience is ruined for few months even half a year.

 

 

[jaapv]

On 11/21/2020 at 11:40 PM, MrFriendly said:

I don't know about camera lockup caused by overheating because I personally don't use Live View that much; however, the freeze up issue is VERY common.

Both of my M246M and M10-P freeze only after a few minutes of use.  There is a thread on M10-M freeze issues, and of course M10-R.  I'm almost certain the lockup issue I'm experiencing with my two cameras is because of firmware bug, and it affects all M cameras because it's the same software.

If I had known the freeze issue was this common, I would have never switched to Leica, specially considering their attitude towards their customers.  Not only do they refuse to acknowledge the problem, through their repair services they've chosen to spread this rumor about SD cards being the root cause of the issue.  I personally find that degusting.

That you have the same problem on your M240 is interesting; it points to usage. My M240 had the same problem when used intensively at temperatures around and over 30ºC using the Visoflex, until Leica updated the firmware addressing heat management. The problem lies in cramming heat-generating electronics into a vintage body that cannot be designed to cope fully. The M10 is surely is even more of a headache for designers in this respect because of the packed smaller body. Leica even dropped video for that reason.

That Leica included an overheating warning is telling. It appears to me that a Leica M is not a machine-gunning-chimping tool in high summer.

 

On 11/12/2020 at 11:38 AM, scott kirkpatrick said:

It's not common.  If you look at the posts above in this thread, they all tended to occur after extended use with live view active (or using the VF020) in hot temperatures.  A warning for overheating appeared, was easy to miss, and stopped cameras.  That problem required not just switching the power off and then on again, but a battery removal and sometimes waiting for a few minutes.  If you can remember what you did before a shutdown, see if you can make the problem reproducible.  Then make it happen in the store. 

 

[Cobram]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

That you have the same problem on your M240 is interesting; it points to usage. My M240 had the same problem when used intensively at temperatures around and over 30ºC using the Visoflex, until Leica updated the firmware addressing heat management. The problem lies in cramming heat-generating electronics into a vintage body that cannot be designed to cope fully. The M10 is surely is even more of a headache for designers in this respect because of the packed smaller body. Leica even dropped video for that reason.

That Leica included an overheating warning is telling. It appears to me that a Leica M is not a machine-gunning-chimping tool in high summer.

 

 

Jaap you said: " ...is even more of a headache for designers in this respect because of the packed smaller body. Leica even dropped video for that reason." Can you give any more detail? I'm curious because smartphone is slimmer than M body but obviously can handle the video pretty well.

[jaapv]

29 minutes ago, Cobram said:

Jaap you said: " ...is even more of a headache for designers in this respect because of the packed smaller body. Leica even dropped video for that reason." Can you give any more detail? I'm curious because smartphone is slimmer than M body but obviously can handle the video pretty well.

Smartphones use completely different processes to handle computing and miniaturized components The first non-smartphone use is the Apple Silicon chip which uses similar integration. Cameras use large sensors that heat up, a hefty CPU, internal memory, etc.

[kegon]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Cobram:

I came from Fuji X system primarly due to service problems and realised Leica is even worse in this regard 🙂

Had my M10 and a couple of lenses for servicing in Wetzlar, which is only a one hour drive from my place. All personal interactions are great... When it comes to IT though - i.e. a CSM System - I agree... Then things get really rustic... 

[RagingCANE]

I emailed Leica CS and they are going to give me a refund through the Leica Store since it is a new camera. I'm impressed with the CS from both Leica Store and Leica USA so far. I'm glad I don't have to worry about a defective camera anymore.

[EdwardM]

same here 

[rtai]

On 1/12/2021 at 5:39 PM, Cobram said:

I have posted a comment in the past regarding quality, globalisation, mass consumer products etc... which ended in disputes and angry replies. I'm really sorry and wish I never did it. I realised internet communication (forums, social media,...) is very very different to personal one.

At the end I think Leica is no different to any other company regarding quality of their products. I came from Fuji X system primarly due to service problems and realised Leica is even worse in this regard 🙂 (much worse in fact). But at the end we buy and use Leica because of THE experience, manual controls and great lenses. If this justifies high price tag I don't know. Definetely Leica Achilles heel is service department. Sometimes THE experience is ruined for few months even half a year.

 

 

I am very paranoid about broken cameras on photography trips because it happened to me on four different occasions using Rolleiflex 6008 and Hasselblad 203FE cameras. After travelling thousands of miles and a hundred rolls of 120 film later I got no images. Most recently my Leica R9 gave me crazy shutter speed readings on auto mode on a trip to Arizona but luckily I only wasted a roll and had an R8 back up. I use my now only Leica an M10M for street photography close to home but for long trips I either want a back up or use something else entirely.

[T.J.]

Just returned from a trip to Iceland where I experienced my first M10-R freeze-up problem.  Did not know this was an issue so I really didn't know what was going on.  This was my first major trip with the M10-R so I was using the VF020 and checking images on the screen quite a bit.  Occasionally, it would just freeze and nothing worked.  Popping the battery for a few seconds fixed it every time.  I would day this happened to me about 5 times over a week.  The camera was certainly not overheating - I was in Iceland.  Hope this is simply a firmware issue and not a hardware issue.  Fortunately I had my Q2 with me but only used it on one day when out on a Zodiac and I wanted the weather sealing.

Edited July 28, 2021 by T.J.

[waigx]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:18 PM, T.J. said:

Just returned from a trip to Iceland where I experienced my first M10-R freeze-up problem.  Did not know this was an issue so I really didn't know what was going on.  This was my first major trip with the M10-R so I was using the VF020 and checking images on the screen quite a bit.  Occasionally, it would just freeze and nothing worked.  Popping the battery for a few seconds fixed it every time.  I would day this happened to me about 5 times over a week.  The camera was certainly not overheating - I was in Iceland.  Hope this is simply a firmware issue and not a hardware issue.  Fortunately I had my Q2 with me but only used it on one day when out on a Zodiac and I wanted the weather sealing.

Hey, did you manage to fix it? I still experience the issue with my M10R + 020.

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[Hans D Siebert]

I "exchanged" my M9-P for an M10-R on account of the sensor problems in the M9-P. The M10-R freezes. I don't think it's live view. I don't think it's the temperature getting too high. I don't think it's Visoflex. I don't think it's SD cards.  I think it's LEICA trying to squeeze too much technology into a small box. I don't own a Visoflex and the M10-R freezes. I have tried 4 different types of SD cards and my M10-R does not discriminate - it freezes on all of them. I used my Leica M10-R in 14 degrees C and the camera "froze" (not on account of the low temperature but in that I could not turn it off unless I took out the battery). I read in these posts that other Leica users have similar problems. That should be something worth paying attention to, by LEICA. Their reputation is built on the supposed quality of their M products. It certainly is not on their functionality. In order to keep selling M mount cameras, they now bring out new models every few years such that the old versions become outdated or useless after the sensors are no longer available or become damaged. For many a Leica owner, the M camera is nothing more than a piece of jewelry to carry around to show off or something to take out occasionally for taking snapshots. For serious photography, such malfunctioning is career destroying. The M10-R model will be my last camera from Wetzlar.  I can use all my M lenses with a Nikon Z7 or Z9 or a number of other brands THAT DO NOT FREEZE.