Why so much love for M10?

[rivi1969]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

19 hours ago, 6bit said:

He’s not impressed with the M10 so I don’t think he’s concerned with it. 🙂

There are people who enter the Leica system believing their images will turn instantly into pieces of art just because they were taken with a Leica M... -or any other Leica for that matter- and the reality is that an M is more about the experience of using the rangefinder and the haptics of an all-metal camera, rather than absolute image quality. I enjoy very much both my M8 and M9P cameras and that's all what matters. Otherwise I would buy a 150MP Phase One mean machine, not an M10R.

[Ray Vonn]

The question was in relation to the M10 but could apply to any RF camera really and for me, it comes down to my eyesight and the ability to focus the patch.  If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't be interested in the RF cameras but I can so I am.  It's the experience and end result.  By the patch forcing me to focus on something particular and relevant in the composition, the end result often renders something of relevance.  Sounds simple but for me that's the starting point.  Rendering and lenses comes after that. 

[budjames]

I love my M10. 

A friend told me about a little trick to check focus. If you have your right index finder on the shutter button, you can easily use your middle finger to move up and down quickly in front the small focus window on the front of the camera. If the focus is proper, you will see no change in the focusing square in the viewfinder. If the focus is not on, it will be very apparent.

Regards,
Bud James

[jjvornov]

22 hours ago, Ray Vonn said:

The question was in relation to the M10 but could apply to any RF camera really and for me, it comes down to my eyesight and the ability to focus the patch.  If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't be interested in the RF cameras but I can so I am.  It's the experience and end result.  By the patch forcing me to focus on something particular and relevant in the composition, the end result often renders something of relevance.  Sounds simple but for me that's the starting point.  Rendering and lenses comes after that. 

I totally agree with your point. The see, focus, compose cycle of using a rangefinder leads me to seeing potential images in the world. A DSLR or even using live view on an M shortcuts the looking into pointing the camera until it looks like a picture and capturing. Its a process that can take place entirely within the camera.  

[Ecaton]

In September 2009 the M9 was about the only compact, comparatively lightweight digital FF body coupled with the best optics money could buy. And as such it had no direct competitor. 

And now all they talk about is the unique RF experience........😢😬😬. Am still holding on to my late 2009 M9 and about 15 m-mount lenses but use a Sony A7r IV and a Leica CL most of the time. 

[count_greebo]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb budjames:

A friend told me about a little trick to check focus. If you have your right index finder on the shutter button, you can easily use your middle finger to move up and down quickly in front the small focus window on the front of the camera. If the focus is proper, you will see no change in the focusing square in the viewfinder. If the focus is not on, it will be very apparent.

Wow, that is a great trick!

You can actually combine it with another one: David Farkas recently mentioned that many photographers miss critical focus, because they have the slightest tendency to sway backwards and forward. But you can use that to your advantage: At those distances, don't try to nail the focus by turning the focus ring for the last tiny bit. Set it to roughly the right distance and then adapt to the rest by going forward or backwards intentionally until the focus patch snaps in. 

The additional advantage is that you can "dance" with the model by just mirroring their movements, much easier than trying to turn the focus ring just right if the model is moving.

Another trick for critical focus is: Do not just look for the overlap of those 2 pictures. At the very moment when it all comes together, suddenly the contrast of the focus patch goes up, giving you and additional indicator of critical focus.

That being said, getting fully focussed photos with an 75mm/2.0 at 2 meters of playing kids or happy puppies is still a challenge 🙂

Best

cg

[Steve Ash]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I you feel in trouble regarding focusing Mark de Paola has some secrets to tell:

 

 

[Casey Jefferson]

On 7/26/2020 at 7:37 AM, rivi1969 said:

There are people who enter the Leica system believing their images will turn instantly into pieces of art just because they were taken with a Leica M... 

I am, and it worked wonderfully. Part of it is due to the looking at a view finder that's different than what the lens see, and working with frame lines. Bigger part of it is due to the lenses. 😁

[Tom Johnston]

I don’t know about everyone else, but I’ll admit I to mis-focusing on occasion, maybe even more than I’d like to admit, and this includes when using the auto-focus on my XVario.

With that out of the way, what I’ve found works best for me, as others here have pointed out, is practice; and getting to really know your lens, and how it performs for you. Which reminds me of another admission- miss framing. 

[rivi1969]

5 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

I am, and it worked wonderfully. Part of it is due to the looking at a view finder that's different than what the lens see, and working with frame lines. Bigger part of it is due to the lenses. 😁

So now your images are pieces of art?

[Erato]

FYR.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=Leica Dog

 

[Erato]

FYR. 

https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=Leica Cat

[FlashGordonPhotography]

At some point recently sensors must have become good enough. Because all the review sites switched from talking about sensors to talking about tracking focus. It seems a modern amateur needs nothing less than the focus system in a Nikon D6 and anything less than a hit rate of 99% is unacceptable. Really? How many pin sharp but poorly composed shots do you need on your hard drive of that fluffy white barking rat some think is a species of dog? If you read the reviews unless it does 8K raw video internally and has pro level sports focus it's a failure. And all the reviewers are mostly into video and companies loan gear to the same tiny group that have no flexibility in camera usage types so we end up with the same criticisms over and over and over because they can't or won't think outside the box.

Don't get me wrong. These impressive pieces of tech have their place and I use them when I need them. I'll buy a camera just to see how cool the new technology is. If you're shooting for a client the the end result is all that counts. But when you point a Sony A9 at someone and the eye focus tracks them like a rabid wolf and the exposure does more calculations per second than a lunar lander you realise that there's not much skill involved in capturing those images. You stand in the right spot, choose an aperture and hold the button down. The real skill is remembering where each function is in the encyclopedic menus.

I spent 30 years building up a skill set that most modern cameras are determined not to let me use. That's why I like the M10 so much. I would rather be a more capable photographer with a less capable camera than the other way around.

Non M people like to moan about the lack of features and the incredible cost as if less stuff should cost less. That you miss shots? That you can't rely on the camera to get things right. Which, to me, is kind of the whole point. The most important tool in the M system is the one holding the camera. Skill matters. The more you practice focusing the better you get. If you stop your skill level drops a bit. Hands up if you're a regular M user and you find yourself sitting on the sofa just twiddling the dials or practicing focus like a really expensive fidget spinner? The M is tactile. Dials that click and aperture rings on the lenses you can set while the camera is turned off (I'm looking at you SL. What were you thinking?). A viewfinder that shows the world as you see it, not through a wide open lens. There's a rewarding feeling to getting a shot right on the M. It's you that made the decisions that resulted in a good image. When you learn to focus quickly and when you set the aperture by counting clicks rather than looking the M is an incredibly satisfying camera to use. It's fun.

Not to mention it takes thought and concentration to use an M. You're in the moment. In years like 2020, which basically suck, a distraction is important.

Gordon

[Casey Jefferson]

6 hours ago, rivi1969 said:

So now your images are pieces of art?

Sorry that you feel the need to question others.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Casey Jefferson

[strohscw]

I love my M10M, as my M4P and M6 in the past because of:

.) the easiness of focusing my main wide angle and normal lenses

.) the possibility to see a little around the frame which helps me to compose my pictures

.) I love the simplicity of this camera and their lenses

.) love the quality and drawing of these little Leica lenses

.) one thing that I normally don´t tell: I know that these lenses are the best of the best and I don´t have to think about hardware, I can concentrate on photography without any excuse for bad photos.

[budjames]

I own an M10 (converted to M10P) and SL2. 

After coming from the excellent Fuji X system, the lack of buttons and features that I didn't use on the my Fujis was a welcome change when I started using the M10. After shooting the M10 exclusively for about 2 years, I purchased a used SL and then traded it in on a new SL2 a few months later. I simple as the SL2 is, it is still a bit overwhelming with it's few buttons and assignable functions compared to the M10.

I love them both, but for different reasons. The IQ is excellent with both. I starting using my Noctilux 50mm f0.95 on my SL2 with the M-adapter. I can now finally nail the focus and appreciate the wafer-thin DOF.

My everyday choice is still the M10 with a Summicon 35mm or APO Summicron 50mm lens.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[Ray Vonn]

7 hours ago, budjames said:

I starting using my Noctilux 50mm f0.95 on my SL2 with the M-adapter. I can now finally nail the focus and appreciate the wafer-thin DOF.

Genuine question here Bud, if everything's calibrated etc, then in theory, as long as RF aligns, focusing at F0.95 would be the easiest, no?  Am I missing something (I appreciate I might be)?

[budjames]

2 hours ago, Ray Vonn said:

Genuine question here Bud, if everything's calibrated etc, then in theory, as long as RF aligns, focusing at F0.95 would be the easiest, no?  Am I missing something (I appreciate I might be)?

Ray, you are correct, however the excellent focus peaking in the SL2 makes it so much easier.

Regards,

Bud James

 

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[Erato]

On 7/28/2020 at 6:14 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

At some point recently sensors must have become good enough. Because all the review sites switched from talking about sensors to talking about tracking focus. It seems a modern amateur needs nothing less than the focus system in a Nikon D6 and anything less than a hit rate of 99% is unacceptable. Really? How many pin sharp but poorly composed shots do you need on your hard drive of that fluffy white barking rat some think is a species of dog? If you read the reviews unless it does 8K raw video internally and has pro level sports focus it's a failure. And all the reviewers are mostly into video and companies loan gear to the same tiny group that have no flexibility in camera usage types so we end up with the same criticisms over and over and over because they can't or won't think outside the box.

Don't get me wrong. These impressive pieces of tech have their place and I use them when I need them. I'll buy a camera just to see how cool the new technology is. If you're shooting for a client the the end result is all that counts. But when you point a Sony A9 at someone and the eye focus tracks them like a rabid wolf and the exposure does more calculations per second than a lunar lander you realise that there's not much skill involved in capturing those images. You stand in the right spot, choose an aperture and hold the button down. The real skill is remembering where each function is in the encyclopedic menus.

I spent 30 years building up a skill set that most modern cameras are determined not to let me use. That's why I like the M10 so much. I would rather be a more capable photographer with a less capable camera than the other way around.

Non M people like to moan about the lack of features and the incredible cost as if less stuff should cost less. That you miss shots? That you can't rely on the camera to get things right. Which, to me, is kind of the whole point. The most important tool in the M system is the one holding the camera. Skill matters. The more you practice focusing the better you get. If you stop your skill level drops a bit. Hands up if you're a regular M user and you find yourself sitting on the sofa just twiddling the dials or practicing focus like a really expensive fidget spinner? The M is tactile. Dials that click and aperture rings on the lenses you can set while the camera is turned off (I'm looking at you SL. What were you thinking?). A viewfinder that shows the world as you see it, not through a wide open lens. There's a rewarding feeling to getting a shot right on the M. It's you that made the decisions that resulted in a good image. When you learn to focus quickly and when you set the aperture by counting clicks rather than looking the M is an incredibly satisfying camera to use. It's fun.

Not to mention it takes thought and concentration to use an M. You're in the moment. In years like 2020, which basically suck, a distraction is important.

Gordon

Mastering photography is one thing, making an eye-catching or capture a stunning picture in the name of $FAME is another thing.

Some learn to be a cash printer while others embrace and enjoying the outstanding design and fabulous artworks because they're not eager to make $ under the name of art.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Guest]

1 hour ago, budjames said:

Ray, you are correct, however the excellent focus peaking in the SL2 makes it so much easier.

Regards,

Bud James

 

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

But i much prefer RF focus to electronic focus peaking thingy,,,so its subjective yes?