What defines "Modern" Leica M Lenses for the M10-R?

[carbon_dragon]

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18 hours ago, pgk said:

Interesting. At the moment I am researching into some very old photographic lenses and as part of this research I am trying to identify photographs taken with these lenses when the lenses, which were in their day, state of the art, were new. Fortunately some photographers detailed the way they worked and commented on the lenses they had used in certain places, so I can identify a few images taken with these lenses even after 160 years. However I should be able to identify more because the lenses were an improvement of others available at the time and were for a time, the best available. Its not that easy. With the right subject matter and relevant specifics it might be possible, but this is rarely the case. And the same will apply to today's state of the art lenses. In absolute comparisons it may be possible to detect and/or show differences but for the most part it won't.

Well when Leica first created those early 35mm stills cameras using cine film, they were competing with larger format camera and they weren't known for their quality. They were trying to show that they could enlarge photos and be equivalent to the contact printed larger negatives, or at least enough to demonstrate they were relevant. And the thing they were known for was often "street" photography which is characterized by imperfect focusing, scale focusing, and probably no tripod (I mean if you wanted tripods you would be using a view camera).

So not all older Leica photos  are going to be shot with the right level of care for sharpness. So it might be harder to distinguish a great lens from a good lens if they're both shot by a person shooting handheld with estimated focus.

I'm not sure WHEN Leica actually started to get a reputation for high quality lenses (for their time). I mean they were probably brilliant from the start, but probably not head and shoulders above the competition (especially Zeiss). 

Plus it is seldom I can actually tell the difference in photos between lenses I have shot. I look back at my Nex-7 period (still a good camera today) when I was using my Leica M lenses on it as well as a whole bunch of other lenses (old Minolta MD, Minolta AF, Contax SLR lenses, Zeiss rangefinder lenses, and so on) and except where I actually named the project with a particular lens, I have no idea what lenses I was using at the time. I feel like I should be able to tell, but I kind of can't. I mostly shoot handheld too. The only ones I kind of know is the M8 infrared pictures. I use either the 35/2 ASPH summicron or the 50/2 summicron (pre APO) for that because of the 39mm filter thread. 

I guess the next level would be not only being able to tell that a particular image was taken by a certain lens, but also taking advantage of its characteristics. Note that NOW my 35 and 50 are 6 bit coded so I can tell those in the file data, but I had to send them to Leica to get them coded and I did that only a year or two ago. And the two Voigtlanders are not coded.

[LBJ2]

On 7/31/2020 at 11:58 AM, 01af said:

It has been stated before but it seems it can't hurt to be repeated:

The performance, the characteristic, and the shape and value of the flaws of a lens do not—repeat: DO NOT—depend on the sensor's pixel count. A good lens will be a good lens on any sensor (as long as the sensor size is what the lens was designed to cover). And a poor lens will perform poorly on any sensor.

In the last two decades, this thread's topic has been discussed every single time—here and elsewhere—when a new digital camera came out with a pixel count higher than usual at that point. And every single time it died down as soon as the higher pixel count became the new standard. When everybody has 40 MP cameras then everbody will happily use the same lenses we are using today, which are (basically) the same we were using yesterday—Mandler lenses, Karbe lenses, Berek lenses on adapters, Apo Asph lenses, Voigtländer and Zeiss ZM lenses, etc pp.

And when a Leica M with a 60 MP sensor comes out, the whole pointless discussion will start over.

So very glad you got that off your chest! 🙄 🤪

This was all I was after (quote below) because this information is important to me and my camera and lens purchase decisions. 

"...older lenses are usable on the M10-R, but of course if you want to have a pin point sharp pictures...if you want to have that resolution power [40.89] and image quality...wide open...you should better go with any, more recent design such as the APO 50 Summicron or, the 35 F1.4 does a great job ...so all the lenses we have been bringing out the last 10-15 years can easily cope with the resolution to the full extent at full open aperture." - Stephen Daniels July 27, 2020.

Peter Karbe chose to use a different approach to signal similar but he also included the formula to measure for ourselves. Invaluable information!

Yes!! Not that anyone I know of doubted, but I can indeed confirm Leica M lenses will perform nicely on 60+ MP sensors and not because I read it on some forum or listened to someone on Youtube.

My Summilux 24 adapted to my 61MP sensor:

 

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Edited August 2, 2020 by LBJ2

[LBJ2]

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[LBJ2]

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[LBJ2]

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