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Survey: Interested in the Leica M10-R?


Leica M10-R - Interested?  

558 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you interested in the Leica M10-R?

    • Yes, I definitely am!
      155
    • Interested, but wait and see...
      157
    • No, I don't need the high resolution
      186
    • Other opinion (see comment below)
      59


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I was a long time Leicaflex user, but Leica is now creating a series of cameras that really are useless in today's photographic world! They should have continued with an R-10, which would have been a high quality 35 mm. DSLR that would have been able to use previous R lenses (with manual focus) and a new series of lenses with a fast auto-focus. Instead, they brought out the ridiculous S series, which is totally unsuitable for anything other than tripod based studio photography! As far as M cameras are concerned, no working photographer today really needs a rangefinder camera especially for sports, nature or photojournalism. Leica's today are unfortunately being marketed to upscale individuals who view them as "status" symbols! The Leica's today are unfortunately irrelevant!! A photo such as I have included here would not really be possible with either a rangefinder or the impossibly slow S series!!!

Edited by rockgod123
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I beg to differ. You have plenty of depth of field in that shot and focusing on one of the court lines and pulling back about 4 feet and then waiting for the moment would have got that with any manual camera, rangefinder or SLR. How do you think that sports shots were taken before fast auto-focus?   The only thing lacking in a film camera is ISO.   Steve is right - The SL is the natural successor to the R cameras. You can use pretty much any M or R lens on it, as we

Quite happy with my M240, thanks. The thought of springing £7,100 on a new toy leaves my blood running cold.

Sorry, but I can‘t agree on this. Leica would already be as dead as dead can be if they would try to compete with all the Sonys, Canons and Nikons (and whatever else) of this world. Just look at the actual competition and the permanent pressure to release every few months something even faster, better with a multitude of functions that most photographers probably never use. Professional photographers, especially those who are into sports photography, are a tiny little group while most customers

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24 minutes ago, rockgod123 said:

I was a long time Leicaflex user, but Leica is now creating a series of cameras that really are useless in today's photographic world! They should have continued with an R-10, which would have been a high quality 35 mm. DSLR that would have been able to use previous R lenses (with manual focus) and a new series of lenses with a fast auto-focus. Instead, they brought out the ridiculous S series, which is totally unsuitable for anything other than tripod based studio photography! As far as M cameras are concerned, no working photographer today really needs a rangefinder camera especially for sports, nature or photojournalism. Leica's today are unfortunately being marketed to upscale individuals who view them as "status" symbols! The Leica's today are unfortunately irrelevant!! A photo such as I have included here would not really be possible with either a rangefinder or the impossibly slow S series!!!


You mention the R10, Leica decided to call it the SL instead.

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The irony of all this discussion about how much M-series resolution and sophistication is enough/not enough, too little/too much, necessary/unnecessary, obsolete/cutting edge, worth it/not worth it is that our friend Oscar Barnack's original was designed as a casual snapshot taking tool for the everyman. 

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49 minutes ago, rockgod123 said:

A photo such as I have included here would not really be possible with either a rangefinder

I beg to differ.

You have plenty of depth of field in that shot and focusing on one of the court lines and pulling back about 4 feet and then waiting for the moment would have got that with any manual camera, rangefinder or SLR.

How do you think that sports shots were taken before fast auto-focus?

 

The only thing lacking in a film camera is ISO.

 

Steve is right - The SL is the natural successor to the R cameras. You can use pretty much any M or R lens on it, as well as its native auto-focus ones. It's just a pity that it took them 10 years to bring it to market.

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vor 21 Minuten schrieb rockgod123:

I was a long time Leicaflex user, but Leica is now creating a series of cameras that really are useless in today's photographic world! They should have continued with an R-10, which would have been a high quality 35 mm. DSLR that would have been able to use previous R lenses (with manual focus) and a new series of lenses with a fast auto-focus. Instead, they brought out the ridiculous S series, which is totally unsuitable for anything other than tripod based studio photography! As far as M cameras are concerned, no working photographer today really needs a rangefinder camera especially for sports, nature or photojournalism. Leica's today are unfortunately being marketed to upscale individuals who view them as "status" symbols! The Leica's today are unfortunately irrelevant!! A photo such as I have included here would not really be possible with either a rangefinder or the impossibly slow S series!!!

Sorry, but I can‘t agree on this. Leica would already be as dead as dead can be if they would try to compete with all the Sonys, Canons and Nikons (and whatever else) of this world. Just look at the actual competition and the permanent pressure to release every few months something even faster, better with a multitude of functions that most photographers probably never use. Professional photographers, especially those who are into sports photography, are a tiny little group while most customers are hobbyists. And most of those people are already completely lost in the depths of the menu systems of all these boring DSLR‘s and DSLM‘s that look almost the same.
Again, sorry, but Leica is doing the only reasonable thing in this overheating, ultra-competitive market - not to be like everybody else, not to take part in this race for the next step of automation and trying their best to be something different. And yes, a Leica camera is definitely a luxury item! But probably it‘s the only way to survive. Leica cannot win against Sony or Canon! Compared to these big companies, Leica is too small.

But for you I would say you’re in a very lucky position. The cameras you are looking for are being built by Sony, Canon, Nikon. And the competition is full force going on and you simply don’t need a Leica for your work. Those other companies are building very good cameras for sports photography - much better and cheaper than any Leica.

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb andybarton:

Even Sony, Canon and Nikon can't keep up with themselves. Olympus won't be the only one going to the wall.

Exactly! Concerning the speed of development of computational photography in smartphones or the increasing use of drones, I fear for all camera companies.

Edited by Knipsknecht
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2 hours ago, bags27 said:

But without the weather sealing, autofocus on demand, macro capability, or built-in EVF. And the 10R + 28 Lux costs around 3x more. Otherwise, right, pretty much exactly the same. 😀

But you can ditch all those expensive Summiluxes except the 28. 

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6 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

40mp for “every day use”?  I don’t think so! The M10R is attractive to a certain kind of camera owner who will produce images exactly like those seen on the launch ‘reviews’, ie dull as dishwater and with no more artistic merit than the average mobile phone dump on social media.

I suspect few of those “every day use” images will ever make it to hard copy. and the best photographers I know wouldn’t give the M10R a second glance.  

All credit to Leica’s marketing dept. for making a portion of their digital camera fan-base all moist, but that’s what they are paid to do and it’s never going to be hard work, is it.
 

I was referring to the often explained effect that 40mp has more pixels so you notice more motion smearing if the camera isn't held absolutely perfectly still, so you go up in potential sharpness but go down in everyday sharpness. It is IBIS that allows other manufacturers in the 'minitaure camera market' (full frame 35mm format) to exploit the pixel race to it's fullest extent. It would be a good time for Leica to update their tripod range.

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4 hours ago, jaapv said:

Now one can buy a 28 and turn it into an expensive Q2 - no more lens changing, no more sensor cleaning, just crop!

Peter Karbe interestingly makes a similar case, albeit unintentionally, when describing his SL prime lenses, which he shows can be digitally zoomed (cropped heavily) for the ‘decisive moment’, without changing lenses, while maintaining image quality.  Probably not how the marketing department would want to characterize it.  
 

See at about 1hr, 33min...

Jeff

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48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I was referring to the often explained effect that 40mp has more pixels so you notice more motion smearing if the camera isn't held absolutely perfectly still, so you go up in potential sharpness but go down in everyday sharpness. It is IBIS that allows other manufacturers in the 'minitaure camera market' (full frame 35mm format) to exploit the pixel race to it's fullest extent. It would be a good time for Leica to update their tripod range.

I noticed with very long lenses and the SL601 or M240 that my lovely looking and very light Berlebach Ash tripod is not really rigid enough. For the M10-R and long lenses, something like the massive Manfrotto 074B studio tripod I have in the UK would be better but I would need to hire a man to carry it round for me. It weighs about 12 kg or more. 

Wilson

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27 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

I noticed with very long lenses and the SL601 or M240 that my lovely looking and very light Berlebach Ash tripod is not really rigid enough. For the M10-R and long lenses, something like the massive Manfrotto 074B studio tripod I have in the UK would be better but I would need to hire a man to carry it round for me. It weighs about 12 kg or more. 

Don’t you just need something that allows you to attach the tripod near the camera/lens’ centre of gravity? I speak as someone who rarely uses a tripod, so am probably talking rubbish.

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4 hours ago, rockgod123 said:

Leica is now creating a series of cameras that really are useless in today's photographic world!

I appreciate you show a valid example with your fine photograph but maybe some photographers don’t inhabit the photographic world you live in.

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2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Peter Karbe interestingly makes a similar case, albeit unintentionally, when describing his SL prime lenses

Really appreciate you posting that Jeff.

What I found so relevant  was the 1.34.30 to 1.36.01 section. Here he describes what he sees as the difference between the M and SL systems...starting with ..‘it’s up to you to decide. If you prefer the character of the M. The M will teach you to get good images and you need to be willing to be taught..........’ and so on.

Some of the comments re the M10r appear to be what is missing but here Peter Karbe may be explaining why they might always be missing. Regardless, it’s the most concise explanation I’ve heard regarding size of lenses and Leica’s philosophical approach  between the M and SL systems.

Edited by BlackBarn
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I don't need a rangefinder experience in my life anymore- my eyes cant do the camera justice and my hands aren't steady enough to handle an unassisted 40mp - I prefer the SL2 for happy snaps and suffer the GFX100 for when I need the MP count. That said - I could change my mind and buy one- because they are most beautiful and lovely camera to hold and use and I am not ashamed or embarassed ot say that how something feels in hand is an important part of the total experience and joy of making photographs. No rush or inclination atm  though - the SL2 and 35 cron combination is just bliss.

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8 hours ago, stunsworth said:

Don’t you just need something that allows you to attach the tripod near the camera/lens’ centre of gravity? I speak as someone who rarely uses a tripod, so am probably talking rubbish.

Steve, 

The problem with lighter tripods is vibration. With very long lenses on high megapixel cameras, over 500mm, the tiniest amount of vibration can soften the image. I noticed this with my very heavy Manfrotto back in the UK, when being used on a wooden floor with Leica Fotos to a large iPad Pro, you could see that anyone moving the smallest amount in the room, made the picture smear. I was using the Berlebach outside on rock, with my SL and 1000mm lens, trying and failing to take decent pictures of our local Bataleur Eagles and was having the same problem with the gentle breeze blowing, that was vibrating the tripod and causing smearing. This would become more noticeable with the higher pixel count on the M10-R.

Wilson

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