Survey: Interested in the Leica M10-R?

[Viv]

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I will not be acquiring the M10-R.

I really like the higher pixel count, but this will be accomplished by my new Q2, which will arrive today or tomorrow.

I am not against the rangefinder mechanism, having used a M9 for some years, but I don't need it.

[Viv]

6 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

Steve, 

The problem with lighter tripods is vibration. With very long lenses on high megapixel cameras, over 500mm, the tiniest amount of vibration can soften the image. I noticed this with my very heavy Manfrotto back in the UK, when being used on a wooden floor with Leica Fotos to a large iPad Pro, you could see that anyone moving the smallest amount in the room, made the picture smear. I was using the Berlebach outside on rock, with my SL and 1000mm lens, trying and failing to take decent pictures of our local Bataleur Eagles and was having the same problem with the gentle breeze blowing, that was vibrating the tripod and causing smearing. This would become more noticeable with the higher pixel count on the M10-R.

Wilson

A tripod should be rigid, light and cheap.

Unfortunately, every tripod made has only two of those attributes.

[wlaidlaw]

1 minute ago, Viv said:

A tripod should be rigid, light and cheap.

Unfortunately, every tripod made has only two of those attributes.

I have been looking for rigid and cheap but failed 😀

Wilson

[Ouroboros]

11 hours ago, 250swb said:

I was referring to the often explained effect that 40mp has more pixels so you notice more motion smearing if the camera isn't held absolutely perfectly still, so you go up in potential sharpness but go down in everyday sharpness. It is IBIS that allows other manufacturers in the 'minitaure camera market' (full frame 35mm format) to exploit the pixel race to it's fullest extent. It would be a good time for Leica to update their tripod range.

Nonsense. It’s the new bokeh. 

[convexferret]

11 hours ago, 250swb said:

I was referring to the often explained effect that 40mp has more pixels so you notice more motion smearing if the camera isn't held absolutely perfectly still, so you go up in potential sharpness but go down in everyday sharpness. It is IBIS that allows other manufacturers in the 'minitaure camera market' (full frame 35mm format) to exploit the pixel race to it's fullest extent. It would be a good time for Leica to update their tripod range.

Which as you well know is only an issue if you are presenting your work larger that you would have previously. 

[mike3996]

M10-R definitely supplants M10-P as my dream camera right now.

I do not need the megapixels but the sensor has a great many other improvements to make it interesting. Great highlight recovery - a first for digital Leica? Lower base ISO of 100 and better ISO performance. These things I like.

Still waiting for the M11 in the hopes there's a new EVF system for it.

Edited July 23, 2020 by mike3996

[Kwesi]

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38 minutes ago, convexferret said:

Which as you well know is only an issue if you are presenting your work larger that you would have previously. 

I agree. I think its important to remember that the effective gain in resolution from M10 to M10R is 25%. Not insignificant but modest.

[250swb]

35 minutes ago, convexferret said:

Which as you well know is only an issue if you are presenting your work larger that you would have previously. 

Ok, you may think that, but just wait for the 'how big can you print' posts that will arrive like an avalanche as people get their cameras. Print size is about bragging rights, nothing to do with good taste or common sense. And of course I'm talking about print size where the image still holds up with your nose pressed against it, not even a sofa or coffee table to dictate a sensible viewing distance.

[Kwesi]

5 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Ok, you may think that, but just wait for the 'how big can you print' posts that will arrive like an avalanche as people get their cameras. Print size is about bragging rights, nothing to do with good taste or common sense. And of course I'm talking about print size where the image still holds up with your nose pressed against it, not even a sofa or coffee table to dictate a sensible viewing distance.

If my math is correct then at a given DPI, you can make a 25% larger print using the M10-R than you could with the M10.

[250swb]

12 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

I noticed with very long lenses and the SL601 or M240 that my lovely looking and very light Berlebach Ash tripod is not really rigid enough. For the M10-R and long lenses, something like the massive Manfrotto 074B studio tripod I have in the UK would be better but I would need to hire a man to carry it round for me. It weighs about 12 kg or more. 

Wilson

I think generally it's the carbon tripods that vibrate less, but you can't beat a bit of weight. I have a very light carbon tripod and it needs the feet digging into the grass to find earth or it just floats on the surface. Great on hard surfaces though. The longer the exposure the less any short initial vibration will show in the photo but that means seconds and not fractions of a second. Of course adding weight by slinging your camera bag from the tripod can reduce vibrations, as can a foot loop to press down on, or a gym bag with a rock in it slung from the centre column, but there is never a rock when you need one.

[Edax]

2 hours ago, Kwesi said:

If my math is correct then at a given DPI, you can make a 25% larger print using the M10-R than you could with the M10.

M10 is 5976 pixels wide, M10-R is 7864 pixels wide.

At a given DPI, a print from the M10-R is 31,6% larger than a print from the M10

At a given DPI, a print from the M10 is 24,0% smaller than a print from the M10-R.

 

[Kwesi]

1 hour ago, Edax said:

M10 is 5976 pixels wide, M10-R is 7864 pixels wide.

At a given DPI, a print from the M10-R is 31,6% larger than a print from the M10

At a given DPI, a print from the M10 is 24,0% smaller than a print from the M10-R.

 

Im definitely going to need a stronger cup of coffee😀 

Please explain how both statements are true

[Jeff S]

5 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

Im definitely going to need a stronger cup of coffee😀 

Please explain how both statements are true

100 x 1.316= 131.6.

131.6 x .76 (24% less) = 100

But that’s before my coffee.  Did I miss something?
 

Jeff

[Kwesi]

6 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

100 x 1.316= 131.6.

131.6 x .76 (24% less) = 100

But that’s before my coffee.  Did I miss something?
 

Jeff

i may need a head scratching emoji 😀

Im not sure i understand how at a specific DPI the M10 print can be both smaller by 24% than the M10R print and smaller by 31.6% than the same M10R Print.

perhaps it's semantics?

[Edax]

1 minute ago, Kwesi said:

i may need a head scratching emoji 😀

Im not sure i understand how at a specific DPI the M10 print can be both smaller by 24% than the M10R print and smaller by 31.6% than the same M10R Print.

perhaps it's semantics?

It is what you take as the starting reference. The difference in pixels (7864 - 5976) is relatively speaking smaller to 7864 than to 5976.

[stunsworth]

48 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

Im definitely going to need a stronger cup of coffee😀 

Please explain how both statements are true

It’s how percentages work.

To take an easy example add 50% too 100 and you get 150. Subtract 50% from 150 and you get 75 not 100. 

[Viv]

4 hours ago, 250swb said:

I think generally it's the carbon tripods that vibrate less, but you can't beat a bit of weight. I have a very light carbon tripod and it needs the feet digging into the grass to find earth or it just floats on the surface. Great on hard surfaces though. The longer the exposure the less any short initial vibration will show in the photo but that means seconds and not fractions of a second. Of course adding weight by slinging your camera bag from the tripod can reduce vibrations, as can a foot loop to press down on, or a gym bag with a rock in it slung from the centre column, but there is never a rock when you need one.

Agreed.

It helps if you retract the rubber feet so that the metal ends of the tripod legs are in direct contact with the ground. Rubber is squidgy, to use a technical term.

Also it helps if the delayed shutter release is used, in order to give the rig time to settle after the shutter button is pressed.

[Kwesi]

13 minutes ago, stunsworth said:

It’s how percentages work.

To take an easy example add 50% too 100 and you get 150. Subtract 50% from 150 and you get 75 not 100. 

Finally got it. We are both saying the same thing.

Thanks!

[wlaidlaw]

The easy way to think about is for something costing say $100. If the tax on this is 20%, it would then cost $120. However if the retailer then gives you a 20% discount, the cost becomes $96 not $100. To get your bill back to $100, the retailer would have to give you a discount of 16.667% All this home schooling of Grandchildren has paid off. I can slice pizzas into fractions with the best of them and turn those into percents 😀

Wilson

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jplomley]

The M10-R will give the same size print at 360 ppi as the M10 will at 240 ppi. The difference in print resolution is very noticeable on my Epson, whose native resolution is 360 ppi. When a file is sent at 240 ppi, the printer extrapolates to 360 ppi with a noticeable loss in resolution, particularly of finely detailed landscape images. For me, this was the impetus for upgrading my SL to the SL2. In a similiar vein, I will update my M10 to the M10-R whenever one becomes available. For me, its all about the final print quality.