Survey: Interested in the Leica M10-R?

[stunsworth]

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2 hours ago, 250swb said:

It's jaw dropping to realise that instead of an M10R you can buy a Nikon Z7 with the highly acclaimed current Z prime lenses (5 in all, but omitting 58mm f/0.95) and have enough change for a weekend away. And it takes all your older Nikon lenses with an adapter, and M lenses with an adapter (all with IBIS), and it's 47mp, and etc. 

But that’s missing the point about what makes an M an M, and why so many of us love them. It’s the viewfinder.

If a new M is too expensive buy a used one - that’s what I did when I bought my M240. If an EVF is essential buy an SLR or a mirrorless camera, there are plenty around at low prices used.

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[Kwesi]

41 minutes ago, stunsworth said:

But that’s missing the point about what makes an M an M, and why so many of us love them. It’s the viewfinder.

If a new M is too expensive buy a used one - that’s what I did when I bought my M240. If an EVF is essential buy an SLR or a mirrorless camera, there are plenty around at low prices used.

This is precisely why Leica will never introduce an M with a built in EVF. It strips away the camera’s uniqueness and thus, its competitive advantage. 

[Guest BlackBarn]

2 hours ago, Denys said:

The words you quote, however, were not mine.

Quite right...sorry Denys!  I mistakenly took it from your quote of Boojay’s. 

[Guest Nowhereman]

On 7/21/2020 at 6:33 AM, 6bit said:

Because some of us print large formats...

You shouldn't assume that people not interested in a 40 MP camera don't make large prints. I do print M10 images at 150x100 cm (60 x 40 inches) and have not had a resolution problem. In 2006, I saw a dazzling Moriyama Daido retrospective in the Gallery of New South Wales in Sydney. There were sixty 150x100 cm prints, shot on 35mm Tri-X and printed on an Epson 4900. Before digital, I remember how people used to say that, for prints larger than 11x14 inches, you "had to "shoot medium format". But I've always liked the "35mm aesthetic" and don't want a medium-format look, neither in resolution nor in gradation. Nevertheless, I understand other people want that look, though some landscape photography I see online comes across as an elaborate resolution test...
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Frog Leaping photobook

Edited July 22, 2020 by Nowhereman

[250swb]

3 hours ago, stunsworth said:

But that’s missing the point about what makes an M an M, and why so many of us love them. It’s the viewfinder.

If a new M is too expensive buy a used one - that’s what I did when I bought my M240. If an EVF is essential buy an SLR or a mirrorless camera, there are plenty around at low prices used.

The features and IQ of the M10R aren't advanced enough over the M10 to bother with it, my example was to put into perspective what else you can get compared with a very, very slight upgrade from the M10 to the M10R. And without IBIS the M10R may well look like a downgrade in everyday use.

[stunsworth]

21 minutes ago, 250swb said:

The features and IQ of the M10R aren't advanced enough over the M10 to bother with it, my example was to put into perspective what else you can get compared with a very, very slight upgrade from the M10 to the M10R. And without IBIS the M10R may well look like a downgrade in everyday use.

I agree that the new camera is a fairly minor upgrade, and I also understand why Leica have released it.

[wlaidlaw]

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I have just received my shipment notice from DHL. They say the M10-R will be delivered to me on Friday but in reality, I suspect Monday of next week is more likely, unless they have started to do their own last few kilometres delivery. Normally they pass the parcel off to a one man band third party delivery agent, with his Rusty or Trusty (cross out whichever is not applicable) battered white van. 

Wilson

[Ouroboros]

16 minutes ago, 250swb said:

The features and IQ of the M10R aren't advanced enough over the M10 to bother with it, my example was to put into perspective what else you can get compared with a very, very slight upgrade from the M10 to the M10R. And without IBIS the M10R may well look like a downgrade in everyday use.

40mp for “every day use”?  I don’t think so! The M10R is attractive to a certain kind of camera owner who will produce images exactly like those seen on the launch ‘reviews’, ie dull as dishwater and with no more artistic merit than the average mobile phone dump on social media.

I suspect few of those “every day use” images will ever make it to hard copy. and the best photographers I know wouldn’t give the M10R a second glance.  

All credit to Leica’s marketing dept. for making a portion of their digital camera fan-base all moist, but that’s what they are paid to do and it’s never going to be hard work, is it.
 

[stunsworth]

22 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

40mp for “every day use”?  I don’t think so! The M10R is attractive to a certain kind of camera owner who will produce images exactly like those seen on the launch ‘reviews’, ie dull as dishwater and with no more artistic merit than the average mobile phone dump on social media.

You could say that for any camera that's on the market. Buying a camera makes someone a photographer in the same way that buying a word processor makes someone a novelist. If someone wants to spend their money on a camera, regardless of price, that's their affair.

[wlaidlaw]

28 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

40mp for “every day use”?  I don’t think so! The M10R is attractive to a certain kind of camera owner who will produce images exactly like those seen on the launch ‘reviews’, ie dull as dishwater and with no more artistic merit than the average mobile phone dump on social media.

I suspect few of those “every day use” images will ever make it to hard copy. and the best photographers I know wouldn’t give the M10R a second glance.  

All credit to Leica’s marketing dept. for making a portion of their digital camera fan-base all moist, but that’s what they are paid to do and it’s never going to be hard work, is it.
 

What a lot of unpleasant ****

[Ouroboros]

5 minutes ago, stunsworth said:

You could say that for any camera that's on the market. Buying a camera makes someone a photographer in the same way that buying a word processor makes someone a novelist. If someone wants to spend their money on a camera, regardless of price, that's their affair.

I didn’t mention the price, I don’t see that as particularly relevant .  

 

[stunsworth]

12 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

I didn’t mention the price, I don’t see that as particularly relevant .  

I was saying that the price isn't relevant, buying a camera isn't a statement about photographic ability, it's a statement about being able to buy a camera.

Edited July 22, 2020 by stunsworth

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Ouroboros said:

...and the best photographers I know wouldn’t give the M10R a second glance.  

 

Could you provide a list of the cameras that the best photographers need to use?  This might save a lot of forum discussion.

Jeff

[Denys]

4 hours ago, BlackBarn said:

Quite right...sorry Denys!  I mistakenly took it from your quote of Boojay’s. 

No problem!  😉

[Denys]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Could you provide a list of the cameras that the best photographers need to use?  This might save a lot of forum discussion.

Jeff

Great idea! I think I can save any more discussion about that. I’m the best photographer I know and I use a Leica M11-P. 

[jaapv]

Now one can buy a 28 and turn it into an expensive Q2 - no more lens changing, no more sensor cleaning, just crop!

[bags27]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Now one can buy a 28 and turn it into an expensive Q2 - no more lens changing, no more sensor cleaning, just crop!

But without the weather sealing, autofocus on demand, macro capability, or built-in EVF. And the 10R + 28 Lux costs around 3x more. Otherwise, right, pretty much exactly the same. 😀

[microview]

2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

I have just received my shipment notice from DHL. They say the M10-R will be delivered to me on Friday but in reality, I suspect Monday of next week is more likely, unless they have started to do their own last few kilometres delivery. Normally they pass the parcel off to a one man band third party delivery agent, with his Rusty or Trusty (cross out whichever is not applicable) battered white van. 

Wilson

Ordered an expensive CD transport last week with delivery by TNT. Website said 'because of conronavirus' they could not provide window for London delivery time and, sure enough, one man in anonymous van delivered item two hours after noon period expired.

Edited July 22, 2020 by microview
typos!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[LMBSGV]

I paid $3,700 for a M262 demo with full warranty and have no complaints about the camera and the quality of prints. For me, the M262 has all the simplicity and those other marketing cliches that cause me to use a Leica M camera. Even if there is slightly better image quality, I simply can’t afford an M-10R at over $8,000. When the M262 finally suffers the seemingly inevitable digital camera death, I’ll be looking at the used market for an M10R or M11 (if there is one.)

[wlaidlaw]

45 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Now one can buy a 28 and turn it into an expensive Q2 - no more lens changing, no more sensor cleaning, just crop!

.....but you can't mount a 500mm MR-Telyt and take wonderful long range photos with a Q2, or any other of the many R and M lenses I have in other lengths than 28mm. 

Wilson