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Leica M10-R: Review by Jonathan Slack


jonoslack

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29 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Box placed on the corner of the table with the flaps protruding from its edges. Someone could inadvertently bump into them and there goes the camera. 

I took the photo in my home office. I was the only one home at the time. I assure you that my camera survived the unpacking.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

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I just got my M10R and am noticing this files are incredible flat and muddy with an intense green cast in the shadows when processing in Capture One. This does not happen at all when using Lightroom, but I'm a C1 user. I'm assuming this will go away when C1 updates for this camera right? For now I find using C1 unusable with this camera. 

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1 hour ago, srlv712 said:

I just got my M10R and am noticing this files are incredible flat and muddy with an intense green cast in the shadows when processing in Capture One. This does not happen at all when using Lightroom, but I'm a C1 user. I'm assuming this will go away when C1 updates for this camera right? For now I find using C1 unusable with this camera. 

Next week, I will make an M10-R ICC correction profile for C1. I will post on this thread when it is done and I will happily send to anyone who needs it. It will be an indirect sunlight profile. I will probably use a 75mm/f1,25 lens to do it. 

Wilson

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On 8/7/2020 at 11:59 AM, srlv712 said:

I just got my M10R and am noticing this files are incredible flat and muddy with an intense green cast in the shadows when processing in Capture One. This does not happen at all when using Lightroom, but I'm a C1 user. I'm assuming this will go away when C1 updates for this camera right? For now I find using C1 unusable with this camera. 

Yes this is due to C1 not yet supporting M10-R. Wilson's profile should help before C1's update.

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5 hours ago, rent said:

Yes this is due to C1 not yet supporting M10-R. Wilson's profile should help before C1's update.

In the meantime, the out of camera JPEG's are remarkably good, with accurate colours and reasonable DR. 

Wilson

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It would appear that I have been royally screwed. The whole expensive Datacolor Photographer package I have just bought cannot create ICC profiles, whereas if I had bought the X-Rite package it does create ICC profiles. Datacolor is Lightroom DCP profiles only. Not happy! Sorry guys. 

Wilson

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It would appear from some research that there is no ideal home cooked solution to Capture One Profiles for the M10-R. To make your own ICC profiles, there seem to be two alternatives. 1) ColorChecker Passport Photo 2, which includes the colour cards, greyscale/white balance cards plus the camera profile creations software from X-Rite. However, all the reviews for using the ICC profiles created by this, mention the same problem. Whereas the colours seem to be very good, the black point is way off to the point of the profile being unusable. 2) Lumariver Profile designer, which uses the 24 sample swatch card or the 48 sample swatch card from Datacolor and again creates an ICC camera profile. The cost of this software, by a strange coincidence, is exactly the same as the X-Rite product. Reviews say that the black point is spot on but the colours are hopeless - faded and muddy. So it would seem for the time being we are limited to Lightroom, ACR or the out of camera JPEG's for the M10-R, until such time as Phase One get their act together and release an update with a profile. 

Wilson

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I have sent Phase one some DNG's taken with the M10-R of the Datacolor Colorcheckr 24 swatch card and the colour values pdf that goes with it. Hopefully that might get them started on a profile but usually they need to borrow a camera. 

Wilson

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I have played around with a whole load of different profiles in Capture One. The nearest to adequate I have found is to use the camera profile for a Leica SL1, then the film high contrast curve. The histogram then needs a bit of tweaking as that results in rather intense shadows and maybe a touch too much saturation but at least the colours seem about right. I have had a response from Phase One who say they are working on it for a future update. 

Wilson

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Excellent review, thank you very much! I have acquired an M10-R as a successor to my M240 from 2013. I left out the 24MP M10s. My first experiences are interesting and a little ambivalent. the M240 is a strong, expressive camera under good lighting conditions. In direct comparison to the M240 the M10 R seems almost a little aristocratic. Finer, more balanced, more understatement, but also a little less expressive. I like the M240 better with my 28 Elmarit. With the 50 Summilux Asph in turn the M10R. Overall, I admit, I miss the contrasts a bit. I feel ISO on the M10R at 3200 felt like 800 on the M240. The Summilux opens up new possibilities for me.  Now I have both and have to decide which one to take with me when and where. The Summicron 50 (I love 50s) is very very sharp, but almost excessive. As soon as I have usable images (because of corona so few possibilities) I'll gladly put some in here.  Regards from Berlin, Peter

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59 minutes ago, carneiro said:

Overall, I admit, I miss the contrasts a bit. 

Are you referring to flatter out-of-camera files?  If so, not unusual with higher dynamic range, but easily corrected in post, especially via tone curve adjustments, which can be saved as  presets/defaults.  

Jeff
 

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Any m10-R users notice that the LCD struggles at showing high iso images? At 3200 and above, playback on my LCD looks bad and the images are covered with color noise. Yet when viewing the images on my phone and computer the files look fantastic. I didn't notice this at all on the m10-P unless reviewing images on the LCD above 6400. I'm assuming it's because the files are bigger and are trying to be displayed on the same 1 million dot LCD? Not this biggest deal in the world, just something I noticed almost instantly when shooting my R. 

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The picture displayed on the LCD is a tiny 'thumbnail' jpeg derived especially for the LCD from the full-sized jpeg that's processed in the camera from the DNG so it's going to be of substantially lower quality than the full-sized jpeg or DNG file when viewed on your phone or computer.

Pete.

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34 minutes ago, farnz said:

The picture displayed on the LCD is a tiny 'thumbnail' jpeg derived especially for the LCD from the full-sized jpeg that's processed in the camera from the DNG so it's going to be of substantially lower quality than the full-sized jpeg or DNG file when viewed on your phone or computer.

Pete.

I totally understand that its a jpg preview derived for the LCD and is way lower quality. To me it's just not a realistic depiction of how the noise truly looks. When I play back a photo above 4000 it makes me second guess if it's usable for my taste, when in reality the file is perfectly fine and even better than my previous Leica's. 

I'm really not too worried as I rarely look at my LCD for image review, its just something I noticed compared my prior M10P and Q and would like some input if others are seeing this.

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On 8/10/2020 at 5:27 PM, wlaidlaw said:

 2) Lumariver Profile designer, which uses the 24 sample swatch card or the 48 sample swatch card from Datacolor and again creates an ICC camera profile. 

Wilson

I can vouch for this software (as a satisfied user), for generating dcp profiles. I have no reason to suppose that the icc version (Pro) would be poorer. The documentation is comprehensive, including on the pitfalls of shooting the target. 

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There have been a few reviews of Lumariver ICC profiles and mention was made of indifferent colour profiling. The whole process of ICC colour profiling is so different to a DCP profile generation, the fact that Lumariver makes a good DCP profile is no guarantee that it will make a good ICC one. I have over the 15 years as a Capture One user spoken to Phase One a few times about the ICC creation process and they say it is quite laborious and they do a lot of tweaking before they are happy with them, so it is no surprise that a low price commercial software product struggles. The last time I looked at buying an ICC profile creation package the cost was well over £1,000 for the basic software and then you had to buy a whole load of calibrated targets. Given what I have read, I am just going to try and be patient to await Phase One doing an M10-R profile. I will use ACR in the meantime. 

Wilson

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On 7/16/2020 at 3:49 PM, helged said:

Thanks Jono! Improved control of highlights is a big plus in my book. One has to be quite careful with previous M's, as well as SL/SL2, in order to avoid (too) digital-looking highlights. At least for my liking. It's good to see an improvement here, as is also seen in S3, the latter not too surprising since M10R and S3 share sensor architecture and processing (as far as I understand it). Goodie...!

can this improvement of the highlights not be fixed via firmware update? Sorry if this is a stupid question. 

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Jono, love the review - I actually haven't  read single line about the M10R until now (today) you posted, I have absolutely less than zero interest to swap my M10-D but the highlight improvement is interesting. I will pass on this as I just got a spare M7 and have aske my wife for a MP Black Paint in 50th b-day present. I like film better better now..., hence my love for the M10-D but again tanks for this short to the pint no BS write up. 

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2 hours ago, M10Alpine said:

can this improvement of the highlights not be fixed via firmware update? Sorry if this is a stupid question. 

Leica changed the M10, which had tuned its ISO 100 performance to place "normal" exposure a little too close to the upper end of its response curve, by simply making Auto ISO based at ISO 200.  That could be done in firmware, and kept lots of folks out of trouble without making a big deal out of the change.  But it seems that the changes in the sensor response curve that are made in the M10-R occur down below the firmware somewhere not easily accessible.

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