M10-R full specifications and photos

[Guest Nowhereman]

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On 7/10/2020 at 3:49 PM, 250swb said:

It's a common thing with all modern cameras and this is no exception, the higher the megapixels are the more bland the photographs become. This is the point in Leica history where going back to film is the guaranteed way to make a better photograph.

Only if you insist on using SOOC files. The more pertinent question is whether the higher MP camera makes it impossible of vey difficult to torture the file to get the look you want. For example, for B&W film, it's common to shoot a low contrast negatives to get, in the darkroom, the higher contrast look that you want in the print. The following M10 image was underexposed by 1-½ stops. So, the question for me is whether the M10-R will make it so difficult to get the type of result seen below. Perhaps, our friends who shoot with the M10M can let us know — although I haven't seen anything out of the M10M that makes me want to buy that camera. 

M10 | DR Summicron-50 | ISO 200| f/f/5.6 | 1/350 sec | Wiang Pa Pao, Thailamd

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Frog Leaping photobook

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[pgk]

Kodachrome 64 - 1974-2009. Amazing that a single 'sensor' lasted so long (35 years) isn't it? Wouldn't be possible today of course .....

[darylgo]

4 hours ago, pgk said:

Kodachrome 64 - 1974-2009. Amazing that a single 'sensor' lasted so long (35 years) isn't it? Wouldn't be possible today of course .....

Thinking of my favorite film makes me want to sing.  

[darylgo]

13 hours ago, Mikep996 said:

Agreed...You can get those "improvements" right now for far less money from Canon, Nikon, etc.  If the Leica M was 'upgraded' (?) to match, the ONLY reason to buy a Leica would be for the bragging rights..."I have an 8000 dollar Leica around my neck and you only have a 2800 dollar Nikon Z7 around yours!" 

Nikons are that expensive?  Gads, when did that happen? 

The new cameras from Canon are very compelling, they are taking a page from the Leica book and making great lenses, not unlike the SL they are big.  Long live the M.  

[FlashGordonPhotography]

19 hours ago, dkmoore said:

I'd gladly welcome IBIS. I'd gladly welcome some sort of focus alignment recognition technology or built in EVF. I'd prefer to maintain the OVF but have some way to eliminate rangefinder mis-alignment (without an adapted EVF).

I'd like to see that technology as well, although with the current battery a full time EVF or IBIS will be hard to pull off. That camera won't be an M though. Closer to an interchangeable lens Q2. That camera already has the tech in it (except IS instead of IBIS) and a much bigger battery. With Panasonics picture in picture manual focusing system a QM would be a fantastic camera. There's need to be a solution for older uncoded lenses for the IBIS. I think keeping the M pure means a lot to a lot of people and I'd not want to see it polluted with every gizmo and add on there is.

I am surprised Leica hasn't gone there already. Somewhere between the CL, SL2 and Q2 is the camera a lot of people, myself included, want. A modern incarnation of the M concept, made for M lenses, by Leica. It's about time Leica show Fuji how it's done. Especially now we're going to have a high resolution sensor designed for M lenses specifically. I think there's room for both an M and a QM in Leica's line up.

Gordon

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I'd like to see that technology as well, although with the current battery a full time EVF or IBIS will be hard to pull off. That camera won't be an M though. Closer to an interchangeable lens Q2. That camera already has the tech in it (except IS instead of IBIS) and a much bigger battery. With Panasonics picture in picture manual focusing system a QM would be a fantastic camera. There's need to be a solution for older uncoded lenses for the IBIS. I think keeping the M pure means a lot to a lot of people and I'd not want to see it polluted with every gizmo and add on there is.

I am surprised Leica hasn't gone there already. Somewhere between the CL, SL2 and Q2 is the camera a lot of people, myself included, want. A modern incarnation of the M concept, made for M lenses, by Leica. It's about time Leica show Fuji how it's done. Especially now we're going to have a high resolution sensor designed for M lenses specifically. I think there's room for both an M and a QM in Leica's line up.

Gordon

Jaap just discussed the issue with an interchangeable lens Q2....

Jeff

[tom0511]

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While I also would welcome IBIS, I would not like the camera to become bigger, or loose its simplicity or formafactor.

For those who want and EVF and IBIS and movie I would think the SL2 to be a good alternative.

Is there also room for a EVF-IBIS-m10electronic? I am not sure.

 

 

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

21 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Jaap just discussed the issue with an interchangeable lens Q2....

Jeff

That topic seems to indicate an AF solution. I'm more after an EVF option for M lenses using the technology in the Q2 and the sensor from the M10R. Basically remove the rangerfinder and replace it with an EVF. Remember that the M10 already has most of this built in as it can accept the visoflex. The camera would need the EVF and battery from the Q2, the joystick from the SL2 (for MF focal point selection) and the rest from the M10R.

And I think Jaap is incorrect.

Gordon

[yggdra.omega]

23 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

That topic seems to indicate an AF solution. I'm more after an EVF option for M lenses using the technology in the Q2 and the sensor from the M10R. Basically remove the rangerfinder and replace it with an EVF. Remember that the M10 already has most of this built in as it can accept the visoflex. The camera would need the EVF and battery from the Q2, the joystick from the SL2 (for MF focal point selection) and the rest from the M10R.

And I think Jaap is incorrect.

Gordon

Does the Q2 have a mechanical shutter or is it strictly leaf in the lens? I saw what the quiet M10-P shutter looks like when its removed and it takes up a considerable amount of space. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

11 minutes ago, yggdra.omega said:

Does the Q2 have a mechanical shutter or is it strictly leaf in the lens? I saw what the quiet M10-P shutter looks like when its removed and it takes up a considerable amount of space. 

It's a leaf shutter. The same focal plane shutter will take up the same space it does in an M. You'd basically be replacing the space needed for the RF with an EVF and more battery space. The other bits would need to be the same size. In the future global electronic shutters will be a thing. Then we'll see some extra space savings as well as better heat management.

Gordon

Edited July 13, 2020 by FlashGordonPhotography

[yggdra.omega]

15 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

It's a leaf shutter. The same focal plane shutter will take up the same space it does in an M. You'd basically be replacing the space needed for the RF with an EVF and more battery space. The other bits would need to be the same size. In the future global electronic shutters will be a thing. Then we'll see some extra space savings as well as better heat management.

Gordon

I guess what I was trying to get at was, where would the bigger battery go? It just seems impossible at the moment, but i am not extremely knowledgable regarding development of camera bodies, I will admit. 

 

 

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[onasj]

2 hours ago, yggdra.omega said:

I guess what I was trying to get at was, where would the bigger battery go? It just seems impossible at the moment, but i am not extremely knowledgable regarding development of camera bodies, I will admit. 

 

 

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Great diagram.  Everyone would prefer more battery life, but I think the M10's battery life is fine, and the batteries are small enough that keeping a spare or two while on location is usually not difficult.  Personally, I would happily trade 50% battery life for IBIS in the M11, if the engineers at Leica can manage to squeeze IBIS into an M10-sized body!  Perhaps a bit of space can be found in the bottom, and perhaps Leica can recover that space by dispensing with the charming but archaic bottom plate?

[Dennis]

Joining the thread.

I never had a camera with IBIS, only a few stabilized lenses. So I can't be objective. I know an IBIS could be a great extra value and help to shoot. But as you are sacrificing the battery for IBIS, I would prefer ten times have a better 6400-25,600 ISO-range performance. With IBIS, you can shoot handheld at very long shutter speed, awesome. But if the subject is a person, it's gonna be blurred, moved. With excellent high ISO, you can shoot with low light at 1/500 and voila. 

I think the essence of the M system camera is the OVF. Once you start to have on an M, a native EVF, an IBIS, etc., you begin to lose the essence that makes the M system unique. Perfect mechanical engineering, with a few buttons and features, on a digital body. IMHO
We just need the best tool (different for everyone) to take fabulous photos, the tool we are comfortable with. And I'm okay with the M just like this. For me, only better ISO performance (like the M10M, for example) is a game-changer. 

[Anakronox]

2 hours ago, Dennis said:

But as you are sacrificing the battery for IBIS, I would prefer ten times have a better 6400-25,600 ISO-range performance. With IBIS, you can shoot handheld at very long shutter speed, awesome. But if the subject is a person, it's gonna be blurred, moved. With excellent high ISO, you can shoot with low light at 1/500 and voila.

This 110%.  IBIS is great if you want to take a photo of a dark, empty alleyway at low-ish ISO and slow shutter speeds.  But if you have any kind of subject movement, you just lost the advantage.  Better high ISO performance benefits both your subject and the photographer by allowing for a faster shutter speed.  I wouldn’t complain if IBIS could be implemented without sacrificing the size, weight, and performance of my M10 or M10M, but if the body had to become bulkier to compensate, no thanks.  

[m410]

1 hour ago, Anakronox said:

This 110%.  IBIS is great if you want to take a photo of a dark, empty alleyway at low-ish ISO and slow shutter speeds.  But if you have any kind of subject movement, you just lost the advantage.  Better high ISO performance benefits both your subject and the photographer by allowing for a faster shutter speed.  I wouldn’t complain if IBIS could be implemented without sacrificing the size, weight, and performance of my M10 or M10M, but if the body had to become bulkier to compensate, no thanks.  

Yep.  Please no more weight.  Doesn't the spec sheet indicate the new M10-R (660g) will weigh the same as a M10 (660g) not a M10-P (680g)?  Does this indicate no level, quiet shutter etc., maybe this will just be a M10 with more pixels?

Edited July 14, 2020 by m410

[yggdra.omega]

23 minutes ago, m410 said:

Yep.  No more weight.  Doesn't the spec sheet indicate the new M10-R (660g) will weigh the same as a M10 (660g) not a M10-P (680g)?  Does this indicate no level, quiet shutter etc., maybe this will just be a M10 with more pixels?

It allegedly weighs the same as the M10M, take that how you will

[Dennis]

about the weight, the M10 is great. I was just making some comparing a few days ago:

• SL2 + 35 Summicron Apo = 1,770gr
• Nikon D5 + 35mm 1.8G = 1,705gr
• M10 + 35 Cron = 1,105

The 600gr extra grams, goes directly to your back 😂 I guess a lighter camera, would be awesome and ALWAYS (IMHO) welcomed

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Dennis

[analog-digital]

Am 10.7.2020 um 20:03 schrieb yggdra.omega:

I have an M10-P and the shutter is one of the most satisfying things about it, in my opinion.

Interesting you buy a camera just because of the "shutter sound"? Not because of the pictures they (could) take?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[LocalHero1953]

42 minutes ago, analog-digital said:

Interesting you buy a camera just because of the "shutter sound"? Not because of the pictures they (could) take?

Usability and how you get the photo are important. If IQ is all then we'd all use large format cameras. Most top end Sony/Canon/Nikon/Panasonic full frame cameras these days take images that most viewers cannot distinguish on quality. (And even if they could, IQ is always less important than image content). Arguing that a Leica M is distinguished from the competition because of its IQ is a losing game. So 'satisfaction in use' becomes an important criterion for choosing a camera.  

[darylgo]

1 hour ago, analog-digital said:

Interesting you buy a camera just because of the "shutter sound"? Not because of the pictures they (could) take?

Shutter sound also translates into less or more vibration, the M10-P has all but eliminated the 1/4-1/15 sec vibration frequency that effects tripod use.  I don’t see much mention of it currently but back in the days of 1/1000 sec top shutter speed slr’s the manufacturers gave  a great deal of time elaborating on how their new shutter/mirror box braking system were smoother with less vibration or new curtain materials we’re stronger, lighter and smoother.  For fun, if you ever get a chance to shoot a Pentax 6x7 you will see how a huge shutter/mirror translates into energy, the kickback is substantial, it was the antithesis of a Leica M, and a great camera system with a loyal following.