Jump to content

David Farkas S3 You Tube Video


albertknappmd
 Share

Recommended Posts

I wonder what issues surfaced (technically and/or market driven) that delayed the launch, given that Toni Felsner basically laid out all the relevant improvements (new sensor and color array with improved reds) two years ago in David's interview.  This doesn't detract from the end result, but does make me curious.

Jeff

Link to post
Share on other sites

David always does such a good job of presenting Leica's products, but this time he has outdone himself. The pictures from Patagonia are a great example of the National Geographic style of landscape & travel photography. It is not really the way I approach landscape work, but he has done it really admirably, particularly considering this was just a trip of limited duration.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Albertknappmd,  Thank you for posting the video.  The S3 sensor is excellent.  If you really need the resolution, the S3 camera delivers.  My clients require really large and detailed landscape photographs and they like what they see and buy.  David did a very good job too.  r/ Mark

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, David's reviews are superb, they are a great asset and reference.  What I appreciate is that he addresses the limitations of the camera and doesn't hold back where he thinks Leica could have done more.  As an S shooter with old cameras, an S2 and 006 I am not sure that I want to invest more into the system presently, once the M10-R is announced the decision should be easier.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

One omission in his review: while the maximum exposure time has been increased, the need to wait an equal time for a black frame for noise reduction is still mandatory. An eight minute exposure is less appealing if you have to sit around for another eight minutes while the light changes in order to take another shot.

Perhaps this falls under "anything I didn't say has changed hasn't changed". Fair enough.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I never had much of a problem with the mandatory dark frame...frankly I appreciate it in that I don't have to bother messing with it myself. That said, if I had to do really long exposures (longer than 2 minutes), it would be quite annoying. To date I have mostly just set up to take another shot while I waited for the exposure to finish, but I agree that if it were 8 minutes that would be a bummer. That said, I prefer that to the reciprocity failure of film at metered times of 8 minutes...then you are probably in for 30 minutes or an hour...

Either way, perhaps this is something that can be addressed in firmware. Didn't they do that with the SL2? Or was it optional from the start?

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Either way, perhaps this is something that can be addressed in firmware. Didn't they do that with the SL2? Or was it optional from the start?

From the start. Jono noted in his initial review that Leica listened to customer feedback...

https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-sl2.html

Jeff

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it is not something that is possible to correct via firmware, it stands to reason that Leica probably did not change it for the same reason they did not change other little annoying things, like not being able to output 4k to an external recorder....it probably required a complicated or expensive redesign of something in the image processing chain. Given the fact that they changed it in the SL2 to make it optional, I imagine they would do the same with the S3 if they could do so easily. This is just speculation though...I really have no idea what is involved in making a change like this. It certainly does not sound difficult to a layperson...it is turning a feature off, rather than asking for something brand new...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, black frame can be annoying, I understand. Having said that, I would like to see some examples of an eight minute exposure on the S3, I bet they can look very good.

One of the most intriguing takeaways from David's video for me is the fact that the S3 produces video files with the incredible amount of 430Mb per second. That is quite a high bit rate, and 10 bit 4:2:2 sounds very promising for image quality too. I know of course that bit rate numbers alone do not tell the whole story, but man, would I love to see a comparison between footage from the Alexa 65 and the Leica S3.

Would be nice if the test could use Leica S lenses on the S3 and equivalent Thalia lenses on the Alexa 65. Both sensors are very close in total surface area, but the 54.12 mm × 25.59 mm sensor of the Alexa is a quite bit wider of course. And therefore the diameter of the Alexa 65 sensor is a bit longer, so the image circle of the lenses needs to be larger. An image from the Alexa 65 with the same focal length as on the S3 would be a bit wider. The Thalias, wich are based on S lenses are compensated for that. They could do tests with both cameras in full sensor mode, and both in 16 x 9 crop.

I wouldn't be surprised if the S3 could turn out to be a nice B or C camera on movie sets where they use so-called large format sensors.

Maybe our friends over at Leitz Cine could do such a test :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am interested in the video as well. I think the big challenge will be the moiré and the quality they are able to achieve. Taking 64mp and downsampling on the fly to around 8.5 is probably going to be tough. Leica is improving, but does not seem to be quite as good at this as, for example, Panasonic and Sony...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m curious as to why with the same image processor the S3 can record 4K from the whole sensor width and the S007 with less megapixels and the same image processor can only do it in 1080p. This seems like a software decision and not a hardware one. Would be nice if they could enable that in the 007 making it a good value large format niche use case video camera. Log is also missing from both cameras.

There is no way that the video output from these cameras will be close to the Alexa sensor. Even putting them in the same sentence is like expecting a Dacia Duster to perform like a Porsche.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, sebben said:

There is no way that the video output from these cameras will be close to the Alexa sensor. Even putting them in the same sentence is like expecting a Dacia Duster to perform like a Porsche.

A bit harsh ... No one said the video output would be close.

Of course the Alexa 65 will 'win' as a movie camera if that's how you want to look at it, it's one of the best dedicated cinema cameras out there, for crying out loud. For me a comparison would be an interesting proposition because both camera cameras can use lenses with very much the same DNA and also have a comparable sensor size. That an S3 could never replace an Arri Alexa 65 really goes without saying :huh:

Having said that, if I were the cinematographer on a big production using large format cameras, I'd be interested to see if I could use an S3 as a B or C camera and sort of preserve the large sensor-look of the movie, or maybe I would rather use an SL2 with an adapted Thalia. If I could, I would like to find out about those options, that's all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The video is nice but the camera is still not available to purchase. Yes, of course, there is the pandemic to blame this time. And when that is over (if it ever is) there for sure will be some other reason why the S3 is not in stock. At this rate, and at the price, they can keep it. I am not saying this lightly, being the owner of an S007 and seven S/CS lenses. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with everything except saying S3 is cheaper than 007 is a a bit disingenuous.  We all know the price was jacked up to a ridiculous level knowing nobody will buy it when S3 was imminent.  You can't say S3 is cheaper, its price is lower than an imaginary price of a new 007 that probably was never paid in reality.  IMHO that purely marketing increase was rather unbecoming of Leica and I wish it wouldn't do that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Am 9.7.2020 um 00:23 schrieb peterv:

Yes, black frame can be annoying, I understand. Having said that, I would like to see some examples of an eight minute exposure on the S3, I bet they can look very good.

One of the most intriguing takeaways from David's video for me is the fact that the S3 produces video files with the incredible amount of 430Mb per second. That is quite a high bit rate, and 10 bit 4:2:2 sounds very promising for image quality too. I know of course that bit rate numbers alone do not tell the whole story, but man, would I love to see a comparison between footage from the Alexa 65 and the Leica S3.

Would be nice if the test could use Leica S lenses on the S3 and equivalent Thalia lenses on the Alexa 65. Both sensors are very close in total surface area, but the 54.12 mm × 25.59 mm sensor of the Alexa is a quite bit wider of course. And therefore the diameter of the Alexa 65 sensor is a bit longer, so the image circle of the lenses needs to be larger. An image from the Alexa 65 with the same focal length as on the S3 would be a bit wider. The Thalias, wich are based on S lenses are compensated for that. They could do tests with both cameras in full sensor mode, and both in 16 x 9 crop.

I wouldn't be surprised if the S3 could turn out to be a nice B or C camera on movie sets where they use so-called large format sensors.

Maybe our friends over at Leitz Cine could do such a test :)

I have not seen a lot of video footage mit the S predecessors... Would be nice to see some footage with the S3...

Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, setuporg said:

I agree with everything except saying S3 is cheaper than 007 is a a bit disingenuous.  We all know the price was jacked up to a ridiculous level knowing nobody will buy it when S3 was imminent.  You can't say S3 is cheaper, its price is lower than an imaginary price of a new 007 that probably was never paid in reality.  IMHO that purely marketing increase was rather unbecoming of Leica and I wish it wouldn't do that.

FWIW, the S007 was announced at Photokina 2014, at a price of $25,400. But when it was actually launched the following Summer, the price was significantly decreased to $16,900 (possibly influenced by a weak Euro at that time, apart from competitive reassessment).  
 

I agree that the last increase, especially in light of weak to non-existent sales, was based on ‘internal’ marketing.  I never took it seriously, given the price that any halfway resourceful buyer could have actually purchased an S007.


Jeff

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...