Which Film M Body?

[fielden]

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Hi All,

My father passed away a few weeks ago and whilst sorting his things out, I inevitably came across the family photos obviously all film prints and it got me thinking that most of my families photos are saved on a hard drive or iPhone and one day will be lost or become unviewable. I know, I could print my digital photos out and have done, but the digital prints don't have the same charm, feel, character, "je ne sais pas" as this old film prints.

Having already an M10P and Monochrom 246 and a few lenses, I have been thinking for a while about a film M body, and this has tipped me over the edge, but which body to choose. Cost is not really an issue and I would prefer a fully mechanical body not reliant on batteries. I have done a bit of research and read through reviews and "I love my...." threads but really not sure which way to go, should I take the plunge and buy a new MA and suffer some depreciation or go for a nice M2, M3 or M4 which would probably appreciate in value although I envisage this M purchase to be a lifelong friend that will be passed on one day.

Used analogue M bodies seem to be in short supply in the UK.

Any thoughts? This GAS is killing me!!!!

[a.noctilux]

Killing GAS is easy with any film M you would find.

This need not to be the last but maybe the first to show you that you would not use it much.

I have some and ended up with M-A but each M is great for M lenses, M2/3/4/4-x,... M5/6 ( I still have those old Ms which served me well for long but less&less now 😇).

Edited July 3, 2020 by a.noctilux

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[ktmrider2]

Meter or no meter is your first choice.  From your post, it seems you do not want a meter (all M's are battery independent except for M7).  My favorite is the M2 due to the elegance of the viewfinder.  My second favorite is the M4 as it gives you the modern features (rapid rewind and film loading) while keeping the viewfinder almost as simple as the M2.  And everyone will say get the M3 if you love a 50.  For a shooter, the M5 may very well be the best if you don't mind the size.

I would buy from a reputable dealer with a good return policy.  Tamarkin, Classic Connection,  and Igor Camera in the US come to mind.  Good luck.  The hunt is a lot of the fun.

Edited July 3, 2020 by ktmrider2

[Ouroboros]

47 minutes ago, fielden said:

 

......Having already an M10P and Monochrom 246 and a few lenses, I have been thinking for a while about a film M body, and this has tipped me over the edge, but which body to choose. Cost is not really an issue and I would prefer a fully mechanical body not reliant on batteries. I have done a bit of research and read through reviews and "I love my...." threads but really not sure which way to go, should I take the plunge and buy a new MA and suffer some depreciation or go for a nice M2, M3 or M4 which would probably appreciate in value although I envisage this M purchase to be a lifelong friend that will be passed on one day......

 

Your GAS is trying to convince you to buy a 'lifelong friend' so I don't understand your concern about what iteration of Leica M cameras might appreciate or depreciate in value.  It's irrelevant, isn't it?

Since cost isn't an issue, why not start with a clean sheet and buy a new camera?  Your choice is either MP or MA, neither of which are dependent on batteries except for the meter in the MP.  The MP works equally well with or without batteries. 

It then comes down to miniscule differences such as the respective types of iso dial (part plastic on the MP vs a bit of tin on the MA), complete or fragmented frame lines, faux sharkskin covers and a back door that doesn't match the rest of the black lacquer on the MP and an occasionally reported visible outline of the battery compartment plug on the MA body if you're really unlucky..... oh, and four useless screw heads on the front of the MA body that the MP is lacking. 

I don't care what anyone else thinks, to my eye the standard black lacquer MP is the more classy-looking of the two and the 'issues' with frame lines, circuitry longevity and cheap iso dial that are so often regurgitated on this forum are invariably issues for people who don't own or use an MP.

But then I bought my MP 2006 and have put 100's of rolls of film through it in that time, so I would say that wouldn't I. 

[spydrxx]

I wouldn't agonize over the choice. If you shoot mostly 50mm, IMHO the M3 is the definitive answer. If mostly 35mm, either the M2 or M4 are excellent choices. Most likely going with any of these bodies, you might need at some point to consider a CLA to keep them smoothly running for another 50 years. To keep things working smoothly USE (exercise) the camera to keep the lubricants distributed and not drying out. Even if you don't have film in the body for a while, every couple of weeks or so, run thru the shutter speeds (advice to me from a Leica technician many years ago at a Leica clinic).

[malligator]

After agonizing over the same decision for literal years I finally bought an M-A this week. There are very few things you can buy today that are essentially the same as they were almost 70 years ago. If you truly plan to keep it forever then depreciation doesn't matter, but even so, just think of the depreciation as the price of the warranty (not that you'll need it).

I may buy an M3 or M2 some day just to own a piece of Leica history, but I'm extremely proud that my M-A shares its history with only me and the Leica craftsman that made it.

[andrew01]

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Opinions will vary, but in my opinion if you are only going to buy one film leica it has to be the M3.  Hold out for a minty one and then get a CLA.  You should be able to get body and CLA for around £1k.  Don’t be put off by peeling vulncanite, which is very common on M3s and looks ugly. Replacement #4008 from aki-ashai cost around $20 and you can get it put on when you have the camera serviced.  You will then have a camera that looks and operates like a brand new one, with the peerless M3 viewfinder. No way would I spend three times the price to get a lesser camera with the MA.

Edited July 3, 2020 by andrew01

[Stealth3kpl]

Get a new one. It will be yours and yours alone. Unsullied by another's hands. You'll also be supporting Leica's film division letting them know we're still out here.

Pete

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, Stealth3kpl said:

Get a new one. It will be yours and yours alone. Unsullied by another's hands. You'll also be supporting Leica's film division letting them know we're still out here.

Pete

Great advice.  That's what I did and haven't regretted my purchase of an M-A. 

[250swb]

Do NOT get an M3, it's like starting a flirtation by declaring your love for your mother. Move on, buy a camera with as many bells and whistles as possible, then when you have experienced it all, using lenses from 28mm to 135mm and all between, only then decide to get weird. The M3 is arguably a superbly well made camera, but that doesn't make it a superb camera.

[plaidshirts]

6 hours ago, andrew01 said:

Opinions will vary, but in my opinion if you are only going to buy one film leica it has to be the M3...

This is how it started for me. Then I got the M2, M4, M5, M4-2, M6, and M6TTL...

There are no bad choices as the shutters all behave the same way, more or less. The main difference will be the viewfinders and aesthetics.

Good luck!

[Tom R]

Depends upon your lenses, whether you use flash units, if you need an in-body light meter, and your access to a good repair person.

I use two M4-Ps--dependable, flexible, and support the occasional requirement for flash units. When I need to meter (usually for flash, and some color films), I use a hand-held Sekonic model that also works very well. Oh, and I use a 28mm Elmarit along with 35 and 50mm Summicron lenses ... these are all pre-ASPH. I get these camera bodies CLA'd every five years or so by Mr. Yee (he is a well-known repair person who is often referenced in these forums).

Now, the only downside I've had with this combination is the one case where I could not obtain a part for a non-essential repair because .... well, they are no longer made by Leica. If this is something that you think you'll use for a long time, then perhaps the newer MA or MP models (if you can afford them) is a better option. 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Tom R

[Mute-on]

 If you only shoot 50 and longer lenses, M3. Otherwise M2.

I have M2, M4 and MP.  The M2 is the most solid and satisfying to use. The others are wonderful in their own way (M4 is BP, MP is 0.58 for 28mm use), but for a 35mm lens, the M2 is sublime. And no, they do not make them like that any more.

Good luck. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Mute-on

[Chaokhun]

If price is not important, mp will be my first choice because 

- M2, 3, 4, 6 prices have gone up and up recently and you might have to pay more if it need CLA 

- MP is fully mechanical camera. The battery is for light meter only, just take battery out if you want to use sunny16.

- M6 classic and ttl viewfinders have flare issue. 
- MP depreciation is not much comparing to digital M. Used MP is around 3.5 - 4 k depending on condition.
 

[colint544]

17 hours ago, Mute-on said:

 If you only shoot 50 and longer lenses, M3. Otherwise M2.

I have M2, M4 and MP.  The M2 is the most solid and satisfying to use. The others are wonderful in their own way (M4 is BP, MP is 0.58 for 28mm use), but for a 35mm lens, the M2 is sublime. And no, they do not make them like that any more.

Good luck. 

Agree. M2 is brilliant, no frills, very close to perfect. It has the best frame-lines for 35mm lenses of any Leitz M. DOF indicators on the rangefinder patch are handy too. I don't think any other M has those. The recessed windows are harder to get fingerprints on than the flush windows of later M models. Proper grippy vulcanite and classic Leica script on the top plate. I like the film loading system too. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy, and reliable. I prefer it to the later 'tulip' system. 

Pick up an M2 and it feels unburstable. It's built every bit as well as the M3.

[UliWer]

If you can dispense with light metering, it depends on your favourite focal length:

35mm - M2.

50+ mm - M3. The finder's larger magnification makes a difference. 

(If you like the combination of 35mm and 90mm - an M2 + an M3 is no bad choice).

If you want light metering, the MP should be the first choice. (Though an M5 - in spite of all its quirks - might be worth a closer look). 

[andrew01]

18 hours ago, colint544 said:

DOF indicators on the rangefinder patch are handy too. I don't think any other M has those. 

The DOF feature is included in late model M2 and M3.  My M3 has it, but to be honest I have never used it to measure DOF.  To me the Leica M style of shooting doesn’t lend itself to careful consideration of technical parameters.  Most of the time I shoot around f5.6 to f8 and understand by intuition that there will be some DOF tolerance.  

[FrozenInTime]

It's remarkable just how old these cameras are getting : can the nylons and glues used in the post 1970's models really last forever ?

 

[earleygallery]

If money isn't an issue and you want a fully mechanical M then go for it and get a new M-A. Yes the MP is fully mechanical and only needs batteries for the built in meter, but the M-A meets your wishes more fully by not using batteries at all.

 

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Hallo,

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[aesop]

21 hours ago, earleygallery said:

If money isn't an issue and you want a fully mechanical M then go for it and get a new M-A. Yes the MP is fully mechanical and only needs batteries for the built in meter, but the M-A meets your wishes more fully by not using batteries at all.

 

  

    ...buy smart, Fielden. Get an MP, take the batteries out to satisfy your current 'battery-less' requirement, while retaining *all* your options. Good luck.