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Waist level


roelv1

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Hello, Perhaps I overlooked it, but I couldn't find any desires on this forum for a tilt screen on a new Leica M (11). It surprises me. The Leica M is often considered as a street camera, but with  a tilt screen its capability for street work would get a huge increase. Now one could use the M for waist level work! And that is a big advantage. See for example what Sean Reid wrote about waist level work. Fuji understood it and made a tilt screen on the X Pro 3. I think and hope Leica will do the same. Even without AF such a screen is most desirable. Not only to be more discrete while working, but also to get pictures from a different, creative angle. Don't you agree?

Kind regards, Roel Visser. http://www.roelvisser.nl

 

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The Leica M is a rangefinder and great for street photography as one can see through rangefinder with one eye and use the other to observe the scene. This is how a rangefinder should be used. Range focusing makes for a 'quick compose and click' as it obviates the need to take time for accurate rangefinder focusing.

For waist level work I am sure one can always kneel and take a pretty decent picture. The Visoflex is a great aid for the M10 and it does allow for 90 degree focusing.

Edited by rramesh
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6 minutes ago, rramesh said:

The Leica M is a rangefinder and great for street photography as one can see through rangefinder with one eye and use the other to observe the scene. This is how a rangefinder should be used. Range focusing makes for a 'quick compose and click' as it obviates the need to take time for accurate rangefinder focusing.

For waist level work I am sure one can always kneel and take a pretty decent picture. The Visoflex is a great aid for the M10 and it does allow for 90 degree focusing.

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Well, I'm working as a pro for more than 25 years now with the M system and did a lot of street work. From all this experiences I can say that a tilt screen would be a great feature. The visoflex is not good enough for waist level work. And kneeling down makes you in front of people very notable. So a tilt screen has only advantages when it comes to waist level work.  

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I used to do a lot of waist shooting with my film Leicas (m2, M6, M7). I just shot from the waist, estimating the framing.  Never thought much about it and even using digital cameras that did have articulating screens, I never actually 'articulated' them.   Of course, since I'm now looking into selling my m10 and buying an M10 D, it's probably obvious that I continue to do it that way.. ;) 

 

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33 minutes ago, roelv1 said:

Not much. Apart from that: it's the pictures that counts. Reid also would like such a screen on the M, as one can reed. 

Leica have worked extremely hard to reduce the bulk of the M bodies since the M240. The M10 and M11 are much thinner, so they are not going to bulk the body back up again.

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As with many of the requested features to be contemplated in the next M, I suspect the current management team at Leica will only consider those that can be fit into the current dimensions of the “classic” M body (M6, M10, etc). Perhaps clever engineering can allow a tilt screen to fit, or even IBIS. But I doubt any feature that expands the current size profile of the M will be approved.

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4 hours ago, andybarton said:

Leica have worked extremely hard to reduce the bulk of the M bodies since the M240. The M10 and M11 are much thinner, so they are not going to bulk the body back up again.

I hope not! 

For those truly in need, use Fotos App Remote on the mobile phone. Not a perfect solution but it can work in some circumstances. 

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6 hours ago, andybarton said:

Leica have worked extremely hard to reduce the bulk of the M bodies since the M240. The M10 and M11 are much thinner, so they are not going to bulk the body back up again.

The M11?  Do the staff know something we don't know?

 

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From the technical point of view, there are full frame camera systems available which allow you to adapt Leica M mount lenses at decent quality (unless we are talking about old wide angle designs), such as Nikon Z7 with tiltable screen.

Visoflex which allows tilting and looking from above might also help a little bit.

From the legal and ethical point of view, waist level photography apparently aims at taking photos of people who do not notice this and - if they would notice would likely never agree. Apart from the fact that this is illegal in many jurisdictions, this is IMHO ethically unacceptable without further discussion.  If I would trap such waist level shooter taking a photo of me without asking, he would learn his lesson immediately...

Edited by Robert Blanko
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4 minutes ago, Robert Blanko said:

From the technical point of view, there are full frame camera systems available which allow you to adapt Leica M mount lenses at decent quality (unless we are talking about old wide angle designs), such as Nikon Z7 with tiltable screen.

Visoflex which allows tilting looking from above might also help a little bit.

From the legal and ethical point of view, waist level photography apparently aims at taking photos of people who do not notice this and - if they would notice would likely never agree. Apart from the fact that this is illegal in many jurisdictions, this is IMHO ethically unacceptable without further discussion.  If I would trap such waist level shooter taking a photo of me without asking, he would learn his lesson immediately...

A good point, and even using a Rolleiflex puts the in the moment because it's too big to hide.

I think street photography should put the photographer in the street as much as the people photographed, not somebody sneaking photographs of people who can't push back and object. It is answering any objections or responding with an acknowledging smile that makes for a great street photographer, not making secret photographs of people.

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As a former pro SLR user (Nikon F1/2/3, Canon F-1) who loved the (now vanished) ability to pop off the prisms for low/high angle shots, I suggested almost as soon as the M10 came out that Leica offer an accessory, removable, shoe-mounted flat screen (could use the same shoe contacts as the EVF).

Seems like an easy no-brainer (and doesn't require any change to the base camera) - but no luck yet.

I guess glueing a flash-shoe onto a phone, mounting the phone onto the camera shoe, and then using FOTOS would give about the same effect - just larger and more kludgy.

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An M camera, with a display it's an M10, M9 etc. W/o display, it's an M-D etc. With a tilt screen on, it would be an O-M-G 😂 IMHO it loses the M essence.

I do enjoy shooting at waist level, and it's fun and challenging when guesstimate. If you need a tilt screen just for that, any mirrorless camera would work better, together with your M camera for the rest of your purposes.

 

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Using the electronic visoflex on my M-P is wonderful, particularly tripod work.  The Viso can be angled for comfort...also good for low-angle work.

I'm  a huge admirer of flippable back screens and live view..eg Canon and have got some very tricky images due to such composing, with my SLR's. Astrophotography, macro and wierd angle macro, etc.

If you want to do macro an adjustable viewing screen is mandatory..or a tripod, copy set-up.

I'd put up with a change in Leica camera thickness..but it will never happen. Leica will never be a do-all 135 camera due to it's infatuation with "being different".

...

 

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