Mechanical / analogue, is it nostalgia or is there more?

[alwinvrm]

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I shoot with a Fuji XPro /X100 mostly, but missed my M lenses. So, I began contemplating a digital M and in the proces dug up my M film bodies and began to use them. 

Yesterday, I was as excited as a 4 year old on his birthday, when I brought a film for developing and bought some new chemicals (yes, in The Hague there is still a one day service B&W lab). 

I also noticed that I felt more connected with the 100% mechanical camera. I know by feel when I made an exposure, in which direction to turn the focusing ring, or how to work the exposure. I also noticed that I was aware of the changing light, adjusting exposure as I walked and wishing I had my Gossen with me, making it an even more fluid experience. It gave taking pictures a feeling of intensity and awareness, that I had missed. I also realized that all along, I felt that taking a picture on digital, by lack of better words, was not as real or valuable as an analogue picture.

Now I understand that there is nostalgia, transporting me back to the pre-digital days when I discovered photography and maybe my unacknowledged inability to fully adapt to digital. On the other hand, I have been shooting digital for more than 10 years and I didn't touch analogue. So the intensity of the joy I felt was unexpected and somehow baffles me.

Just sharing my unexpected experience, and probably saying something that others already experienced before me.

 

 

[pippy]

8 minutes ago, alwinvrm said:

...I felt more connected with the 100% mechanical camera. I know by feel when I made an exposure, in which direction to turn the focusing ring, or how to work the exposure. I also noticed that I was aware of the changing light, adjusting exposure as I walked and wishing I had my Gossen with me, making it an even more fluid experience. It gave taking pictures a feeling of intensity and awareness, that I had missed. I also realized that all along, I felt that taking a picture on digital, by lack of better words, was not as real or valuable as an analogue picture...

I really don't know why you cannot have the same experience with a digital M. Apart from the end result being captured in a different way the actual shooting experience is exactly the same. No difference whatsoever.

If you really want to go down the simplest 'lack-of-distraction' digital M route then track down an M-D Typ-262; it doesn't have a screen which means that apart from ISO, focus, shutter-speed and aperture there is absolutely nothing which can be set / altered. Having no screen also means that it even delivers the "can't see what I've shot until I get the images processed" aspect. The only difference is that the processing is electronic rather than chemical.

Philip.

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[wattsy]

For me, using film is absolutely not about nostalgia or about the process. It is about digital looking a bit shit for the type of photographs I wish to take. 

[alwinvrm]

9 minutes ago, pippy said:

I really don't know why you cannot have the same experience with a digital M. Apart from the end result being captured in a different way the actual shooting experience is exactly the same. No difference whatsoever.

If you really want to go down the simplest 'lack-of-distraction' digital M route then track down an M-D Typ-262; it doesn't have a screen which means that apart from ISO, focus, shutter-speed and aperture there is absolutely nothing which can be set / altered. Having no screen also means that it even delivers the "can't see what I've shot until I get the images processed" aspect. The only difference is that the processing is electronic rather than chemical.

Philip.

Sorry, I wasn't clear apparently. I am not saying, that I couldn't have a similar experience with a digital M, I never tried, so I don't know. I meant to say that I was astonished that shooting with a (film) M again had such an impact on my photographic experience; film was only a component of that experience.

I see now , stupid me, I didn't change the title of the post as I intended to. My apologies.

Edited July 2, 2020 by alwinvrm
correction

[ianman]

I like film because I can collect the little plastic containers to put my coins in.

[pippy]

19 minutes ago, alwinvrm said:

Sorry, I wasn't clear apparently...I meant to say that I was astonished that shooting with a (film) M again had such an impact on my photographic experience...

Ah; OK.

Yes; I agree completely. My first proper digital camera was a DSLR and it was not long before I noticed that the quality of my personal work had plummeted because I had lost the 'right approach' neccessary to take good snaps. Everything was too automatic and far too easy so I no longer put in the required effort. Going back to using an M changed that situation around pretty much immediately.

Philip.

Edited July 2, 2020 by pippy

[Prosophos]

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50 minutes ago, wattsy said:

...It is about digital looking a bit shit for the type of photographs I wish to take. 

I burst out laughing as I read this -- not because I disagree, but because I sympathize completely (just never thought to word it that way, ha ha). 

I've been trying to convince myself to get a discounted mint M10-M that has unexpectedly appeared for sale locally, but no matter how hard I try I can't seem to convince myself that any of the Mono models produce output superior to B&W film. 

I got into some sort of trouble 7 years ago -- more precisely, was accused of being delusional -- for writing an open letter to Leica to help save the M9 sensor, so I guess the delusion extends to film too.

Anyway, carry on.

―Peter.

[alwinvrm]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

I like film because I can collect the little plastic containers to put my coins in.

Actually, yesterday the nice guy in the fotoshop gave me some Agepon (wetting agent) in one of these plastic containers; it arrived home safely.

[Charles Morgan]

Returning to film and learning to develop it ensnared me so totally that I use digital less and less. I only use that for colour and frankly, each and every time I shoot colour film I much prefer the results. Using a lovely mechanical camera like an M3 is a bonus - the film winding is a process of refined joy. 

[Keith (M)]

2 hours ago, Prosophos said:

 

I've been trying to convince myself to get a discounted mint M10-M that has unexpectedly appeared for sale locally, but no matter how hard I try I can't seem to convince myself that any of the Mono models produce output superior to B&W film. 

 

It is nigh on five months since my M10M arrived and since then neither my M7 nor R5 (& not even my 503CX) have seen the light of day.  Enamoured, seduced, besotted  - term it how you will - and shows no sign of wearing off!

[Prosophos]

1 hour ago, Keith (M) said:

It is nigh on five months since my M10M arrived and since then neither my M7 nor R5 (& not even my 503CX) have seen the light of day.  Enamoured, seduced, besotted  - term it how you will - and shows no sign of wearing off!

That's good to know, and helpful, thank you.  And that's what I would like to happen to me.  I'm still trying to make up my mind.

[pgk]

8 hours ago, alwinvrm said:

Now I understand that there is nostalgia, transporting me back to the pre-digital days when I discovered photography .....

But nostalgia implies an original enjoyment. Personally I have spent far too long in darkrooms chasing deadlines to ever be nostalgic about film. I have some in the fridge and I will use it when I have the right subject matter to do so. But no, I have no nostalgia for film and its associated long winded and often unpleasant processing. That said, I do remember watching prints develop in front of me though, which always amazed me. Whilst it is sad that few photographers will now experience this, I can't say that I can muster the enthusiasm to set up a darkroom again to experience it myself.

[oldwino]

I've owned a somewhat embarrassing number of Leica M film cameras, and 4 digital M cameras (M9, MM, M262, M-D262). I still own the film cameras, but I could never warm up to the digital. Yes, the images looked good. Yes, I could use all my M lenses. But it just isn't the same...I do not own any of the Leica digitals anymore.

Nostalgia? Perhaps. But I just like the feel, handling and craftsmanship of the old film cameras. So I stick with 'em.

[alwinvrm]

27 minutes ago, pgk said:

But nostalgia implies an original enjoyment. Personally I have spent far too long in darkrooms chasing deadlines to ever be nostalgic about film. I have some in the fridge and I will use it when I have the right subject matter to do so. But no, I have no nostalgia for film and its associated long winded and often unpleasant processing. That said, I do remember watching prints develop in front of me though, which always amazed me. Whilst it is sad that few photographers will now experience this, I can't say that I can muster the enthusiasm to set up a darkroom again to experience it myself.

Now I am in the luxurious position to love film, no deadlines. I understand that otherwise a streamlined digital workflow is hard to beat.

[ianman]

16 minutes ago, oldwino said:

Nostalgia? Perhaps. But I just like the feel, handling and craftsmanship of the old film cameras. So I stick with 'em.

Owning both film (2) and digital (1) bodies I can't say I feel much if any difference. Then again my MP (film) was built after my M9 so I can't say it's an "old" film camera.

Some don't like the darkroom steps of film. I really hate the whole digital workflow. Colour management, correction layers, etc. a just a PITA. Happily, I'm quite content with the results of "developing" the dng files through Iridient developer.

[pippy]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

Owning both film (2) and digital (1) bodies I can't say I feel much if any difference. Then again my MP (film) was built after my M9 so I can't say it's an "old" film camera.

...Colour management, correction layers, etc. a just a PITA. Happily, I'm quite content with the results of "developing" the dng files through Iridient developer.

Funny you mention that about the digi / film bodies, Ian. My first digi Leica was a Black Paint M8.2. So used was I to winding-on my old M2 and so similar did my 8 feel in use that one of the first areas to 'brass' was the top-edge rear right-hand-side where I was trying to 'wind-on' the 8 just out of sheer force of a 35 year habit. Also the rear of my current 'colour body' digi-M, a M-D 262, has neither screen nor buttons - just a central circular ISO dial reminiscent of the dials on the film bodies - so the feel in the hand is much closer to the film M cameras than any other regular digi-M.

As 99% of my digi-snaps have always been rendered / printed as monochrome images the colour management side of things isn't a bother!

Philip.

Edited July 2, 2020 by pippy

[Herr Barnack]

Shooting with my M-P 240:  Greatly enjoyable.

Shooting with my Q2:  Great fun.

Shooting with my M4-P:  Greatly satisfying.

Three different cameras, three different types of photographic experiences - all three are satisfying and enjoyable in their own way.

The Q2 is the most fun to use camera I have ever owned and used, while the M4-P is the most satisfying camera I have ever used.  The M-P 240 gives me the greatest photographic prints I have ever been able to produce (have not yet had prints made from the Q2). 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[alwinvrm]

I recognize a view things here. I only got serious about color management in the digital era. When shooting B&W film I only bothered to use filters sometimes with portraits.

I used a hybrid workflow as well and found it actually quite nice. I mean shooting film, scanning the results and follow with a minimal digital workflow. Printing I prefer in the darkroom, though. Well, admittedly I don't have  experience with digitally printing B&W film.

[earleygallery]

Let's not have yet another debate about whether film or digital is 'better'.

I shoot with both, probably a lot more digital if I include iphone photos, but my heart is still with film. I just prefer the look of the images and using film cameras - it's nice being able to pick up a camera like the M2 and never having to worry if the battery/s have enough charge for a trip out.

I do tend to use my digital cameras like film, insofar as I don't shoot thousands of shots just because I can, or constantly change my ISO setting. I would suggest that using film does change the mindset if only for the fact that you know each frame costs X and depending how many rolls you're carrying, you also only have X number of frames to shoot.

I entirely get that the 'freedom' of digital and unlimited frames, instant ability to go from 100 to 3200 ISO and a camera pre loaded with colour, B&W, saturated or natural looking medium which requires no messy chemicals to process is a great boon too, and totally understand why others can't be bothered with film photography.

Plenty of room for both as far as I'm concerned. Each to their own, horses for courses etc. etc.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[105012]

I like that film forces me to think hard about my choices, then commit to them, at each step of the way.
 

On the tool, I like the mechanical simplicity of all manual film cameras. I like that things are not shrunk down in my M3 viewfinder and I like having no distracting and Blinky Blinky lights there. And the superb consistent haptics. And no software bugs or updates.  
 

Having spent a lifetime developing software of the highest quality possible, I like the quiet contemplative and physical process of working in my darkroom. And I love the results!