Q2....my first Leica...but nowhere to go from here.

[cj3209]

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20 hours ago, Viv said:

I have the CL, but am thinking of getting a Q2 (while also keeping the CL.

Am I crazy?

No, I have both; I think they compliment each other.  Just trying to come to grips with all the $$ that was spent...lol...

[JTLeica]

Personally I would stick with the Q and see what the next generation of CL / TL offers. The SL is large, but superb. Leica have (other than the M) never made small lenses, they opt for their idea of the 'best' design. L mount is similar in that respect to the R lenses, sort of.

I think you'd be slightly disappointed with the CL images vs the Q2. The TL lenses are great though.

Just dont wait for a Leica Q interchangeable system or a small FF system, it wont be coming.

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[mrgigi]

I feel the same way.  With the Q and now the Q2, I would love to switch completely to Leica, but the other Leica camera lines all have their compromises.  So I keep my Sony system with fantastic Zeiss glass.  If Leica came out with a Q2 Vario tomorrow, I would purchase it right away.  I don't think they will make an interchangeable lens version of the Q2, since it would complete with the SL2.  But some of us don't want a camera as large as or with the bulky lenses of the SL2.  Unfortunately I heard Andrreas Kaufmann mention that the Q was just a test for the SL.  It's a shame, because the Q/Q2 is fantastic, I believe popular for Leica, and would sell like hotcakes if they allowed interchangeable lenses.  I think Leica is crazy not to produce something like this.

[Viv]

On 7/9/2020 at 3:50 PM, Mr.Q said:

The Fuji X system is a far superior APS-C system IMHO.

I have both.

"Far superior" is untrue, in my experience.

[Ko.Fe.]

On 7/9/2020 at 10:27 AM, Mr.Q said:

I said it is a superior APS-C system, compared to what Leica offers. To be fair though, Fuji is the only manufacturer that takes APS-C seriously.

Sorry, but you are ill informed or just biased.  Sony has very many APS-C cameras users, so is Canon with APS-C DSLRs and M series mirrorless. Millions of users of digital Rebels.

Fuji has biggest steam punk fans base on the internet.

[Ko.Fe.]

On 7/1/2020 at 1:17 PM, Max EPR said:

I have been an amateur photographer all my life and I have owned every major brand of DSLR. My current camera kit it is a Fuji X-T4 and a bunch of lenses, however, I just purchased my first Leica ....a Q2. It was love at first site with the Q2. The photos from the Q2 are the nicest ones I have ever taken... Sharp and beautiful.  I am very comfortable with the controls of the Leica. The shutter and aperture controls are very similar to the Fuji (I really like the Fuji physical controls). Because of Leica's quality, I would love to move my kit to Leica, but I can't find what I want. I am not interested in a rangefinder. The S and SL are too large. I want the advantages of a full frame sensor and not another APS-C. Basically, I want a Q2 with TL-Lenses and L-Adapter. I then would be all in with Leica. Sony built the A7 III, which is about the same size (minus lens) as the Q2. So it can be done.

I hear you. I recently added Canon RP as alternative to my AF DSLRs (one APS-C, one FF). And my digital rangefinder collecting dust for second week now :). I don't have AF adapter for RF and using it with Nokton 35 1.4 II. Canon RP is same size, less weight than my M-E 220, but it is not as good as Leica with true RF lenses. I'm finding MF focus of RP to be superior to RF focusing. And I think it will be great to have compact sized, FF, M shaped camera with EVF in the same corner. In fact, all Leica could to do is to add another line with M series bodies, sensors, shutters, where RF is replaced with EVF. The only bad thing, it will still miss dust shake :).

[Mr.Q]

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1 hour ago, Viv said:

I have both.

"Far superior" is untrue, in my experience.

I've had both too.

[Mr.Q]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Sorry, but you are ill informed or just biased.  Sony has very many APS-C cameras users, so is Canon with APS-C DSLRs and M series mirrorless. Millions of users of digital Rebels.

Fuji has biggest steam punk fans base on the internet.

I am well-informed with quite a bit of experience with both systems.

I don't have a bias either.  I don't even shoot with Fuji any more. I own Leica, Hasselblad, and Sony cameras currently.

As I said, Fuji is the only company that takes APS-C seriously. Just look at their lens lineup. Which other manufacturer has a full APS-C lineup of F1.4, F2 and F2.8 primes at multiple focal lengths? What other manufacturer makes BOTH F2.8 and F4 wide, standard and telephoto zooms? Which other brand makes Cine lenses for APS-C? And don't get me started with their range of camera bodies.

And.....when is the last time Leica released a APS-C lens? Do they even care? Are they too busy with M and SL lenses?

I'm just stating what I see. Please tell me how I am ill-informed and biased again.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Mr.Q

[Ko.Fe.]

56 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

I am well-informed with quite a bit of experience with both systems.

I don't have a bias either.  I don't even shoot with Fuji any more. I own Leica, Hasselblad, and Sony cameras currently.

As I said, Fuji is the only company that takes APS-C seriously. Just look at their lens lineup. Which other manufacturer has a full APS-C lineup of F1.4, F2 and F2.8 primes at multiple focal lengths? What other manufacturer makes BOTH F2.8 and F4 wide, standard and telephoto zooms? Which other brand makes Cine lenses for APS-C? And don't get me started with their range of camera bodies.

And.....when is the last time Leica released a APS-C lens? Do they even care? Are they too busy with M and SL lenses?

I'm just stating what I see. Please tell me how I am ill-informed and biased again.

Canon has 2.8 zooms for APS-C sensors for some time. And so did Sigma. They had f2.8 zooms well before FujiNoFilm came out with X series cameras. Sigma has 30 1.4 for EF-S and 18-35 EF-S f1.8 lens.With third party lenses EF-S, EF-M mount lenses are plenty.  And here is no problem to use 17-40 L and 16-35 L lenses on EF-S cameras. Results are awesome. Nothing beats L zooms, IMO. 

I see a lot of Canon EF-S cameras users.  So, you are biased.

 

[jaapv]

 

On 7/10/2020 at 9:30 AM, Viv said:

I have the CL, but am thinking of getting a Q2 (while also keeping the CL.

Am I crazy?

Certifiable. But don't worry, it is a benign malady which will only harm your wallet.

[Mr.Q]

6 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Canon has 2.8 zooms for APS-C sensors for some time. And so did Sigma. They had f2.8 zooms well before FujiNoFilm came out with X series cameras. Sigma has 30 1.4 for EF-S and 18-35 EF-S f1.8 lens.With third party lenses EF-S, EF-M mount lenses are plenty.  And here is no problem to use 17-40 L and 16-35 L lenses on EF-S cameras. Results are awesome. Nothing beats L zooms, IMO. 

 

lol... Canon has ONE F2.8 zoom. Sony has ONE F2.8 zoom. Did you not see where I typed wide, standard and telephoto zooms? Those systems have been around for over a decade and yet they aren't even close to Fuji's lens lineup.

You have a point about Sigma though (and maybe even  Pentax) They took APS-C more seriously than Canon, Nikon and Sony combined, according to this article.

https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/2075375377/sigma-has-done-more-for-enthusiast-aps-c-than-nikon-canon-and-sony-combined?comment=5298654952

But I'm not talking about the past but the present.  No one is releasing new APS-C lenses nowadays.  Except for Fuji.
 

6 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

 And here is no problem to use 17-40 L and 16-35 L lenses on EF-S cameras. Results are awesome. Nothing beats L zooms, IMO. 

Exactly. It's blatantly obvious Canon/Sony/Nikon wants their customer base to grow into their full frame offerings.  That's why they only make half-baked lenses for APS-C. 

And it's comical that you conveniently left out Leica. In case you're wondering, the last time they released a TL lens was nearly 3 years ago....the 18/2.8.  In that same timeframe Fuji released 9 new X-mount lenses. Please explain how you are concluding that Leica is putting more effort into their APS-C system?

Edited July 26, 2020 by Mr.Q

[Simone_DF]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:47 PM, jaapv said:

Such a camera  would be a hard sell for Leica, between the CL and the SL, with very little difference in image quality, there is little room to position  another camera with chance of commercial success. The SL2 has opened up a gap, but who knows what a CL2 might bring?

I see your point, but if Sigma or Panasonic release a full frame camera that size-wise sits in between the CL and the SL, what do you think will happen?

[jaapv]

If Leica keeps APS-C on the same level as full frame, which they did with the CL vs the TL, nothing much will happen. Format fanatism only besets a small group of photographers, mainly found on Internet forums and blogs. 

[Simone_DF]

14 hours ago, jaapv said:

If Leica keeps APS-C on the same level as full frame, which they did with the CL vs the TL, nothing much will happen. Format fanatism only besets a small group of photographers, mainly found on Internet forums and blogs. 

I don't see Leica going anywhere with APS-C. They can barely support the full fledged SL. Still a basic lens lineup after 4 years and slow, disappointing firmware updates. No lens released for APS-C for quite a while too. They will for sure release a CL2 though, but to me it looks like it's a secondary market for them, just an afterthought.

Anyways, if Panasonic or Sigma (most likely Sigma) will release a full frame camera with good performances, but smaller and cheaper than a SL2, I can see myself selling my M10 and switch. And I'm pretty sure that quite a lot of people will consider getting that camera instead of a SL2 or a CL/CL2.

The point is, if you don't cannibalize yourself, other will...

[jaapv]

Actually, the APS-C system has been developed to be in the heart of the Leica system and it can accept the largest number of <edit> Leica </edit>  lenses. The L alliance does not exist for nothing either. I can see it as a core priority for Leica as a whole.

[rivi1969]

On 7/9/2020 at 9:27 AM, Mr.Q said:

I said it is a superior APS-C system, compared to what Leica offers. To be fair though, Fuji is the only manufacturer that takes APS-C seriously.

Mr Q, Fuji is the best APS system bar none. Haptics, construction, amazing IQ, value for money, all great. I am very happy with the XT3 and my 5 fast lenses.

[lct]

3 minutes ago, rivi1969 said:

Mr Q, Fuji is the best APS system bar none. Haptics, construction, amazing IQ, value for money, all great. I am very happy with the XT3 and my 5 fast lenses.

Matter of tastes i guess. Last time i tried (X-E2) i found the camera quite decent but i struggled in PP on Fuji colors and its sensor stack was too thick for M lenses so i don't use mine anymore now that i have the way better (to me) digital CL.

[rivi1969]

On 7/25/2020 at 2:04 PM, Ko.Fe. said:

Canon has 2.8 zooms for APS-C sensors for some time. And so did Sigma. They had f2.8 zooms well before FujiNoFilm came out with X series cameras. Sigma has 30 1.4 for EF-S and 18-35 EF-S f1.8 lens.With third party lenses EF-S, EF-M mount lenses are plenty.  And here is no problem to use 17-40 L and 16-35 L lenses on EF-S cameras. Results are awesome. Nothing beats L zooms, IMO. 

I see a lot of Canon EF-S cameras users.  So, you are biased.

 

With all due respect, Mr Q is right.

Please... Don’t compare a plastic Rebel body or a Canon M with an X-T or X-P bodies. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by rivi1969

[rivi1969]

1 minute ago, lct said:

Matter of tastes i guess. Last time i tried (X-E2) i found the camera quite decent but i struggled in PP on Fuji colors and its sensor stack was too thick for M lenses so i don't use mine anymore now that i have the way better (to me) digital CL.

The X-E is not Fuji’s finest line and there will be no X-E4. The X-Pro or X-T are superior. And regarding lenses, well, Fuji optics are superb, there is no need to attach anything else that their own glass. 

My Fuji kit has its own rightful place and it is not picking fights with my Leicas, (or Canon, Hasselblads or Sony) they all get along quite well.

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[Ko.Fe.]

19 minutes ago, rivi1969 said:

With all due respect, Mr Q is right.

Please... Don’t compare a plastic Rebel body or a Canon M with an X-T or X-P bodies. 

You reminded me one steam punk lady. She became very passionate about my FED-2... leather case. I’m not fetishist, to me Rebel has durable body, I use it everywhere for ten years now and all of controls are done via dials and buttons.

I took BIF, portraits, photos for election run, been nominated in international content with photo taken by it. Canon has superior to FujiNoFilm service where I’m and M bodies provider has absolutely no service here. I don’t needed it with my Rebel, but used it for our daughter pro gear and for one of my L lenses.