M2 frame counter difficult to reset

[craigr]

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I am the happy proprietor of two M2s-- one with and one without the self-timer. Both are in excellent condition and well serviced and maintained. The one without the self-timer, in fact, has now been sent off to Alan Starkie for a new frame line mask and possible viewfinder rebuild so should soon be in darned near mint condition.

My other M2 -- the one with the self-timer -- has a minor but annoying hiccup.  The frame resetting disk is VERY hard to rotate when compared with any other M2 I've handled. I have removed the top retainer / shutter release cup thingie, film advance lever with spring washer, and the frame counter disk itself and found nothing amiss. Directly under the disk, lying on the top plate, is a fiber or fiber-like washer. Aha!, I thought, this thing's probably dried out and dragging on the disk on top of it. So, I lubricated it with a thin film of lithium grease and re-assembled the components. The film counter disk might have rotated a bit more freely then, but it was still mighty stiff. 

I stripped it all down again and removed the washer altogether. This improved things noticeably to ALMOST normal or at least an ease of use that I can live with if need be.

Thing is, I hate to eliminate that washer. It's there for a purpose, if only to prevent the underside of the disk scraping against top plate. Perhaps the washer has swollen slightly with age and needs replacement -- but I cannot find a source for it. Or, perhaps the frame counter disk resetting problem points to something else altogether.

Any repair ideas or similar experiences to relate?

Thanks very much,

Craig

 

 

[Pyrogallol]

Mine had the opposite problem, it was a bit too loose and would slip round if it touched anything while being taken in or out of a camera bag, so I  lost the record of the number of frames used. It was tightened up during a service.

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[tommonego@gmail.com]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb craigr:

I am the happy proprietor of two M2s-- one with and one without the self-timer. Both are in excellent condition and well serviced and maintained. The one without the self-timer, in fact, has now been sent off to Alan Starkie for a new frame line mask and possible viewfinder rebuild so should soon be in darned near mint condition.

My other M2 -- the one with the self-timer -- has a minor but annoying hiccup.  The frame resetting disk is VERY hard to rotate when compared with any other M2 I've handled. I have removed the top retainer / shutter release cup thingie, film advance lever with spring washer, and the frame counter disk itself and found nothing amiss. Directly under the disk, lying on the top plate, is a fiber or fiber-like washer. Aha!, I thought, this thing's probably dried out and dragging on the disk on top of it. So, I lubricated it with a thin film of lithium grease and re-assembled the components. The film counter disk might have rotated a bit more freely then, but it was still mighty stiff. 

I stripped it all down again and removed the washer altogether. This improved things noticeably to ALMOST normal or at least an ease of use that I can live with if need be.

Thing is, I hate to eliminate that washer. It's there for a purpose, if only to prevent the underside of the disk scraping against top plate. Perhaps the washer has swollen slightly with age and needs replacement -- but I cannot find a source for it. Or, perhaps the frame counter disk resetting problem points to something else altogether.

Any repair ideas or similar experiences to relate?

Thanks very much,

Craig

 

 

Both of mine were difficult to move, broke or wore down finger nails. But they were accurate, even CLAs didn't help. The repair folks didn't see a problem. I just lived with it.

[craigr]

Thanks, Tom. That's pretty much the conclusion I've come to.

Similarly, the camera displays one other mildly frustrating characteristic.  The lens mount is exceedingly tight, taking a seemingly unnatural amount of force to attach and detach a lens. I consulted one of our well-known Leica techs about this and his reply was - essentially - "Relax. Unless something's snapping in half, there's nothing to worry about".  He explained that Leicas made in the era of the M3, M2, etc. were hand built with components being matched manually to one another by the assemblers. Thus, noticeable variations in fitting occurred but as long as the cameras met factory specs, they passed inspection and were suitable for sale.  Our repair guru said he learned this early in his career when a customer came to him with a too-tight lens mount complaint similar to mine. Various bayonet mounts were tried on the camera body until one was declared comfortable and correct. But, in fact, it wasn't correct. The camera was then plagued with focusing errors until the original mount was re-installed. This all sounds implausible in this age of robotic assembly of CNC cloned components, but it certainly makes sense when dealing with hand built, hand assembled devices.

Thanks for your comforting response, Tom.  My fingernails may suffer a bit when re-setting the film counter, but I feel better about my M2, nonetheless. I now consider it a one-off instrument built with VERY precise tolerances.

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[Michael Hiles]

I realized a long time ago that the M2 frame counter de-links from the internal gear system if you wind the shutter on only half way. It is then easy to rotate – it becomes freewheeling and thereby easy to set. It rotates either way.

Mine was never stiff, and this may have no bearing on your stiffness problem, but I always use the trick to set my counter when loading a film. Very convenient.

[craigr]

Neat trick -- and it works!  Thank you, Michael.

[oldwino]

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17 hours ago, Michael Hiles said:

I realized a long time ago that the M2 frame counter de-links from the internal gear system if you wind the shutter on only half way. It is then easy to rotate – it becomes freewheeling and thereby easy to set. It rotates either way.

Mine was never stiff, and this may have no bearing on your stiffness problem, but I always use the trick to set my counter when loading a film. Very convenient.

This has changed my life. So easy now!

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Wish I had known when I had my M2s. 

[spydrxx]

22 hours ago, Michael Hiles said:

I realized a long time ago that the M2 frame counter de-links from the internal gear system if you wind the shutter on only half way. It is then easy to rotate – it becomes freewheeling and thereby easy to set. It rotates either way.

Mine was never stiff, and this may have no bearing on your stiffness problem, but I always use the trick to set my counter when loading a film. Very convenient.

And I thought I knew my M2 forwards and backwards! Thank you!

[Börje Norhager]

I have a similar counter problem with my M4-P...complete “deadlock” at 40th exposure. What to to? Pls also refer to my post half a. hour earlier!

/Bn

[BradS]

On 6/28/2020 at 12:27 PM, Pyrogallol said:

Mine had the opposite problem, it was a bit too loose and would slip round if it touched anything while being taken in or out of a camera bag, so I  lost the record of the number of frames used.

Mine does this. It’s really annoying. 

[MikeMyers]

On 6/29/2020 at 5:21 PM, Michael Hiles said:

I realized a long time ago that the M2 frame counter de-links from the internal gear system if you wind the shutter on only half way. It is then easy to rotate – it becomes freewheeling and thereby easy to set. It rotates either way.

Hey, thank you!  I haven't used my M2 in maybe 50 years.  I started using my M3 again a few days ago, and today checked out the M2.  The exposure counter was "stuck" in place, but your trick worked splendidly.

What is the small metal cylinder directly to the right of the pointer arrow?

[Michael Hiles]

33 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

What is the small metal cylinder directly to the right of the pointer arrow?

I would like to help but I do not really know. If you find out please post here. I am interested.

[madNbad]

My guess is it plugs the hole where the M3 frame counter is located. If anyone knows for sure please let us know.

[earleygallery]

That 'disc' is a retaining screw for the top plate. You can see it being removed in this video

 

[MikeMyers]

What a fascinating video - and it answers the question.  So intricate!

Thank you for posting!