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How would the Zeiss Biogon 25 or 28mm 2.8 perform on the CL?

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Hey all,  was curious about how the technical aspects of the Zeiss Biogon lenses ( 25mm or 28mm ) would match up with the CL + adapter. Im between either of those or the TL 23mm Summicron. Main use cases being travel and street photography.

The image render from the Zeiss seems almost better than the 23mm but worried that it wont perform as well on the CL vs a dedicated lens. 

Has anyone used both on a CL or T? 

Thanks in advance.

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Why should it perform less on the CL? The camera is not aware of the brand of the lens. These are simply excellent lenses on any camera. 

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1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Why should it perform less on the CL? The camera is not aware of the brand of the lens. These are simply excellent lenses on any camera. 

 Biogons are typically symmetrical in the optical layout so if true to form have more extreme sensor incidence angles than Distagons , and are more likely to have sensor stack specific  corner color shift or smearing.

I found the TL 23 an average lens not stellar, so understand the desire to look further afield.

The 25 and 28mm ZM lenses never looked great on paper ( MTF graphs show quite a resolution fall off across the image before any sensor stack effects  ) so never tried them , but did use the 21/4,5 finding it to resolve well, but had slight edge color shift.

Sold the 21/4,5 hoping to soon get the 21 Leica SEM. 

The Leica 28 Elmarit ASPH and Summicron do work well and can be recommended.

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@me.daveobrien@gmail.com I have no experience with the 25mm or 28mm Biogon lenses but can highly recommend the 24mm Elmarit-M ASPH. Easily my favorite lens with the CL.

@FrozenInTime Very interesting to read about your first-hand experience with the 21mm Biogon. I was considering this lens as well for the CL. Can you confirm that your results were obtained with a CL? If so, do you have any pictures available online that were taken with this combination of Leica CL and 21mm Biogon? Thanks a lot.

 

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I have ZM 25mm. It performs excellent on M, SL, and C, but I prefer Leica X much more.   I assume that's an indicator of TL 23mm.

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10 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

 Biogons are typically symmetrical in the optical layout so if true to form have more extreme sensor incidence angles than Distagons , and are more likely to have sensor stack specific  corner color shift or smearing.

I found the TL 23 an average lens not stellar, so understand the desire to look further afield.

The 25 and 28mm ZM lenses never looked great on paper ( MTF graphs show quite a resolution fall off across the image before any sensor stack effects  ) so never tried them , but did use the 21/4,5 finding it to resolve well, but had slight edge color shift.

Sold the 21/4,5 hoping to soon get the 21 Leica SEM. 

The Leica 28 Elmarit ASPH and Summicron do work well and can be recommended.

The original question was not the quality of these lenses as such, but whether it would be advantageous to use them on the CL. The short answer is: yes.
The CL is an APS-C camera, reducing any corner or edge falloff. The CL has been optimized for high-incidence angle lenses to accommodate older M lenses, which would further improve quality towards the corners by lack of sensor stack problems.
So,  if anything, the CL should  bring out the best in these lenses.

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I looked at the 2.8 25mm Biogon, but ultimately wasnt a faster lens, so I got the 23 Summicron. I haven't looked back. But if you are looking check out the 21mm fast CV lenses too.

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Posted (edited)
vor 19 Stunden schrieb FrozenInTime:

 ...

Sold the 21/4,5 hoping to soon get the 21 Leica SEM.

I own the SEM 21 since several years, but for me, and the CL it's a bit too much on the heavy side.
Think about exchanging it with the new Skopar 3.5/21 VM, a great lens too!

Edited by cp995

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I use the Biogon 25mm and the Summicron 23mm on my CL. Here are two quick test shots.

Summicron 23mm

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19 hours ago, Joachim_I said:

 

@FrozenInTime Very interesting to read about your first-hand experience with the 21mm Biogon. I was considering this lens as well for the CL. Can you confirm that your results were obtained with a CL? If so, do you have any pictures available online that were taken with this combination of Leica CL and 21mm Biogon? Thanks a lot.

 

At the time I only had a TL2. Sorry, I can’t see the images on my active drives, so must be hidden away on the card backups.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, cp995 said:

I own the SEM 21 since several years, but for me, and the CL it's a bit too much on the heavy side.
Think about exchanging it with the new Skopar 3.5/21 VM, a great lens too!

The Voigtländer 40/1.2 is my all time favorite lens, but I just can’t get close enough to buy the 21/3.5 due to the styling of their classic 21, 35 and 50mm lenses.

Edited by FrozenInTime

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On 6/29/2020 at 8:06 PM, ralf3 said:

Biogon 25mm

This Biogon looks sharper to my eyes (admittedly on a phone) ... is that what you see?

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vor 29 Minuten schrieb ruskkyle:

This Biogon looks sharper to my eyes (admittedly on a phone) ... is that what you see?

Yes, the Biogon is sharper than the Summicron.

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6 hours ago, ralf3 said:

Yes, the Biogon is sharper than the Summicron.

I do think the so-so performance of the 23 Summicron coupled with it’s high dollar price, is one of things that has held back the APS-C system.

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I agree, it’s a pity the system’s only 35mm equiv prime lens is underwhelming.

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Posted (edited)

Gee guys, I’m less sure about the criticism of the 23mm: I used in a library setting for shooting documents informally, handheld, stopped down to 5.6 or 8, and had no complaints at all. Much better than the (compressed) newspaper shots above. 

I don't think its it’s as good as 21 SEM, but few lenses are. My 21 Skopar drops sharpness on the sides, but this may not be a factor on CL. 

Edited by geoffreyg

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It’s not a bad lens, I used it exclusively for a year before adding the 35. In good light it can produce pretty nice images. Just doesn’t have much magic to it in many scenarios.

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From the initial post, unless you already have M-lenses, why would you buy an M-L adapter (I highly recommend the $450 Leica adapter and not knock-offs) just to use an M-lens?  I, personally, would want to leverage the AF capabilities of the CL and since the Leica TL lenses are really good, I purchased the 23mm, 35mm, and 60mm TL lenses. 

Also, I  have both the 35mm TL (highly acclaimed) and 23mm TL and the 23mm TL is not far from the quality level of the 35mm TL, IMHO.  I wouldn't diss the 23mm TL so quickly unless you've used it in real life situations.  The absolute sharpness I lose with the 23mm TL, I gain with it's compactness; the 35mm TL is pretty obtrusive.  See below compressed pic attesting to the sharpness of the 23; although it's at f5.6.

No post processing outside of saving as compressed JPEG.

Cheers!

 

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