The Milky Way's Galactic Core

[typ3656]

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Hi Everyone

This is my very first post, so by way of introduction, I'm Kevin from Australia/Canada (I live in both countries), and I'm an amateur photographer. My love for the art developed in 2005 when I worked in a photo lab during my first year of Uni. Fifteen years later, I'm none the wiser but I'm eager to learn. This forum is definitely going to raise my IQ by, like, a million points. I purchased my first Leica (M10) in April 2020 and prior to that I was shooting with Nikon DSLRs.

I'm the kind of guy that when told something doesn't work or shouldn't be done, I go and do it anyway and then think to myself, "Yup, I should've listened to them." But, in this instance, I think going against popular belief/opinion paid off! Which principle did I violate, according to some people? I used an M10 for long-exposure, astrophotography.

It's winter here in Melbourne, Australia, and June/July are the best months to photograph the Milky Way (if you're after unobstructed views of it from end to end because of it being at high altitudes). After a bit of planning using the PhotoPills and AccuWeather apps, it was then a waiting game for all the stars to align (moonless and cloudless night, and making sure the accommodation I was going to be staying at was still available).

The original plan wasn't to use my Leica. I brought my Nikon and was going to pair it with my 24-70mm f/2.8 lens. (I called all lens hire shops around town to see if I could hire a Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8 but there wasn't a single unit available for when I needed it.) At about 12:30am this morning, I snapped as many as I could on my Nikon. Then, I thought why not also try it with the Leica (despite what people say about using it for long exposures). I'm glad I whipped out the M10 because none of the shots from my Nikon worked! I did not know that a lens' focus distance ring can go past infinity! This takes the expression "to infinity and beyond" to a new level. As I was focused at "beyond infinity" none of the images from my Nikon came out sharp. I was so upset because now all I was left with were images from my M10 at 35mm, and thoughts in my head of people saying, "M10 no good for long exposure astrophotography."

After some (rather heavy) editing, I think this one image turned out okay? Please let me know (but go easy on me).

Technical info:
Leica M10
SUMMICRON-M 35mm ASPH (v6)
16 seconds @ f/2, ISO 3200
No other noise reduction apart from the M10's own noise removal (is there any way to stop the camera from doing its own automatic noise reduction on long exposures?)

 

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Edited June 27, 2020 by typ3656
I'm an idiot and photo didn't upload

[jaapv]

Unfortunately your image did not upload. Please read the instruction on the top of the  page. No, LENR cannot be disabled, nor would you want it to be in this case. It only removes hot pixels (unavoidable with long exposures) and it is impossible to differentiate a hot pixel from a star in noise reduction.

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[typ3656]

10 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Unfortunately your image did not upload. Please read the instruction on the top of the  page. No, LENR cannot be disabled, nor would you want it to be in this case. It only removes hot pixels (unavoidable with long exposures) and it is impossible to differentiate a hot pixel from a star in noise reduction.

Oops! I hope it's fine now.

And thanks for the info about the LENR. Ah, so this is probably why people don't recommend a Leica M10 for long exposures due to the camera potentially removing stars on its own.

[jaapv]

No - the point is that it won't remove stars with LENR, ONLY hot pixels , but you will do soi with classic noise removal! The camera noise suppression is far better in this case, it mimics what astronomers do.

[typ3656]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

No - the point is that it won't remove stars with LENR, ONLY hot pixels , but you will do soi with classic noise removal! The camera noise supression is far better in this case, it mimics what astronomers do.

Gotcha! Thank you, Jaap. Then using M10 for astrophotography is a good thing after all

[david strachan]

Fabulous picture, congratulations.

I like the very low coma in the lens edges.

Hope to see more.

...

[typ3656]

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5 minutes ago, david strachan said:

Fabulous picture, congratulations.

I like the very low coma in the lens edges.

Hope to see more.

...

Thank you, David

I had to google what lens coma is. Interesting. I can spot some stars in the photo with this side effect.

[andybarton]

Nice one.

 

I am amazed at how much of the frame is filled with galaxy given this was with a 35mm. Just goes to show what a properly dark and clear sky can do for you. Very hard to find in the UK, even in our “dark sky parks”.

16 seconds is probably as long as you can go before starting to get the earth’s rotation messing things up.

[typ3656]

Just now, andybarton said:

Nice one.

 

I am amazed at how much of the frame is filled with galaxy given this was with a 35mm. Just goes to show what a properly dark and clear sky can do for you. Very hard to find in the UK, even in our “dark sky parks”.

16 seconds is probably as long as you can go before starting to get the earth’s rotation messing things up.

Thank you, Andy. I, too, was surprised at how much I was able to capture with the 35mm.

I did a little research beforehand and learned about a “500 rule” so I knew not to use anything beyond 14s (500/35mm=14) and I was already pushing it at 16s.

I would’ve though UK’s countryside spots would be great for this sort of thing. I only drove about an hour out of Melbourne to a spot where one could see the Milky Way clearly with the naked eye. That’s what I started with, then add the 16s.

[andybarton]

Thanks.

 

The UK countryside still has roads and villages and cities on the horizon. 
 

There are a couple of dark sky parks in Northern England and Scotland, but you then have to be lucky with clear, unpoluted skies. Not easy.

 

Some friends have a property on Anglesey, which is both dark and way out west with clean air and we saw Saturn’s rings late one night a few years ago and some of its moons through the binoculars. A real treat.  

 

The clearest view of stars I’ve ever seen was in rural France. I’d got up in the middle of the night ... and as I stood there looking up through the skylight window in the bathroom, the stars were so clear and bright, I could see them properly even without my glasses. I woke the whole family up and got them into the garden to look. How they thanked me afterwards 😊

 

 

[typ3656]

13 minutes ago, andybarton said:

... we saw Saturn’s rings late one night a few years ago and some of its moons through the binoculars. A real treat. 

 

That must've been breathtaking!

Just made a purchase of the LUFB2018 (PDF). Great cause. Looking forward to seeing all of the images/content whilst sipping on my coffee tomorrow morning.

[andybarton]

Thank you!

 

We've done a few over the years and raised a lot of money. 

[gbealnz]

Looking good.

Try a wider lens, if you can. Or a completely manual focus lens on the Nikon. And focus using live view and magnified (with either/any camera). I never found my earlier 35 Summicrons to be that sharp across the field, stopping it down a few stops helped. An unfortunate situation, stars, and CCD's, both are hard on optics.

LENR is a pain, but with most Leica products it is non-negotiable. In that regard I found my cheap and cheerful Fuji X would do 5+ minutes with little noise, and no LENR needed.

Another thing to try is shoot many shorter exposures, and stack them, there is stacking software out there to assist with this DeepSkyStacker being only one. This will help until you plump for a tracking method. If costs are an issue (maybe not if you are an M10 owner?), then Google Barn-Door-Tracker. Otherwise there are portable tracking mounts widely available.

Good luck, it's a black hole for your wallet though, beware.

 

[typ3656]

4 hours ago, gbealnz said:

Looking good.

Try a wider lens, if you can. Or a completely manual focus lens on the Nikon. And focus using live view and magnified (with either/any camera). I never found my earlier 35 Summicrons to be that sharp across the field, stopping it down a few stops helped. An unfortunate situation, stars, and CCD's, both are hard on optics.

LENR is a pain, but with most Leica products it is non-negotiable. In that regard I found my cheap and cheerful Fuji X would do 5+ minutes with little noise, and no LENR needed.

Another thing to try is shoot many shorter exposures, and stack them, there is stacking software out there to assist with this DeepSkyStacker being only one. This will help until you plump for a tracking method. If costs are an issue (maybe not if you are an M10 owner?), then Google Barn-Door-Tracker. Otherwise there are portable tracking mounts widely available.

Good luck, it's a black hole for your wallet though, beware.

 

Thank you, gbealnz, for all the helpful info! This is the first time I've attempted astrophotography so I'm sure I broke many rules.

Yes, I originally wanted to hire the 14-24mm f/2.8G for its superb optics - and mainly for the 14mm focal length - but no rental shops had them available for my astro day  (I guess I could have hired another brand, like Tokina 11-16mm, but I didn't do any further research and was skeptical of the quality. So, I was stuck with with using my 24-70mm f/2.8G as the main plan. The Leica + 35Cron wasn't even supposed to be Plan B but I thought why not. As I originally wrote, I'm glad I used the Leica or I would've had nothing at all because none of the Nikon shots turned out. I've come to... not mind the tight crop of this shot, but wider would have been much better, you're right.

Are you suggesting that I should steer away from the AF lenses because of the issue I ran across with the focus at "beyond infinity" and that MF lenses don't have this issue? If so, that would've saved me that night. Grrr. And, I didn't think to use the LiveView on the Nikon <pulls hair out>. That would've saved me, too. Useful tip, thank you.

I'll also look into the stacking method. I'm not too savvy with the editing tools so I'm hoping it doesn't sound as difficult as I'm imagining it to be. Using a counter-rotation device sounds like it requires a lot of brains to operate properly... and I'm a simple guy. But, I can see myself chasing stars for the rest of my life so it may be worth learning now.

Thanks again, gbealnz. All helpful tips, and I love the pun you signed off with.

 

[gbealnz]

Nope, the tracking devices are just that, designed for simple non-technical use. Skywather and iOptron are two that spring to mind, and they are reasonably priced, even new.

I've always favoured manual focus lenses, simply because most AF lenses are a pain to focus manually, "focus by wire" being the main objection. In the past I have used my R series lenses, as well as M, but additionally Pentax 6x7, and some of my Hasselblad glass. For environmental astro though, wider is likely better suited. And even with manual focus lenses, I would still suggest, strongly, that you Live-View confirm that the infinity stop is correct, it certainly isn't always when you are adapting lenses, like the M/F lenses for example.

 

[stuny]

Terrific shot.  I wish I had thought to do likewise in high altitude, dark, dry places like the Atacama.

[typ3656]

On 6/29/2020 at 10:32 PM, stuny said:

Terrific shot.  I wish I had thought to do likewise in high altitude, dark, dry places like the Atacama.

Thank you, stuny. The level of light pollution I was working with wasn't ideal by any means. It was only about a 90-minute drive out of Melbourne. If you have the Light Pollution Map app, the area I was in was colour-coded as dark green. So, a dark-green patch of land might be closer to you than you think

[andybarton]

Handy little App that. But I’m afraid it just proves that most of England and Wales is far from dark. You have to go well into Scotland to find some proper dark skies. 

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[typ3656]

6 hours ago, andybarton said:

Handy little App that. But I’m afraid it just proves that most of England and Wales is far from dark. You have to go well into Scotland to find some proper dark skies. 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Yikes. You weren't kidding about that, Andy. I reckon the areas along the coastline would allow for some good shots.

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Hallo,

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[wizard]

Well, that shot looks pretty spectacular to me! I had no idea those kind of results are possible with a regular Leica. Thanks for showing this to us.

BTW, since Andy mentioned the Saturn rings, I could see them very clearly last summer from the top of my house using my spotting scope at its maximum magnification (which is 45x). Very impressive to say the least. On the same accasion, I also got a very good view of Jupiter (and some of Jupiter's moons).

Cheers,

the other Andy