APO Macro Summarit S 120 Repair Question

[Daniel81]

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Hi.  My camera is an SL.  I just purchased a used APO Macro Summarit S 120 from a very reputable Leica shop in Canada (I have had good dealings with them on numerous occasions) and I bought the Leica L to S adapter.  The lens was advertised as Mint plus.  On receiving the lens (in its original box with all original paperwork, caps, hood, bag, etc), I noticed there is also a 'Customer Service Test Certificate' in the box which states "Your Leica Product has been repaired by an experienced engineer and has undergone a comprehensive final inspection".  So this means the lens has been repaired.  On researching the S 120 Summarit history, I see in its early years, it has some serious AF malfunctions that all had to be returned to Leica Germany for repair.  So I am presuming this particular lens (number 4119590) was part of that 'era' of this lens.  Question is:  should I be worried?  Were the repairs on those AF issues reliable, durable and long lasting or was there any history of repeat failure anyone can tell me about. Its not too late for me to return the lens but if people here can assure me that repair was typically a well-done one time event and the lenses were as good as perfect after, I will keep the lens.  Thanks.       PS - on first trial, it certainly takes some time to focus but I think that is just the way these lenses are - and I am finding sometimes it seems to seek focus in the wrong direction, go all the way to the end and then eventually find focus after changing 'direction'. Is this 'normal' for this lens or is this a warning sign pertaining to the original problem?

Edited June 17, 2020 by Daniel81

[LeicaR10]

Daniel81,  To answer your question about the AF motor repair.  The certificate is proof the lens was repaired.  To be sure if the AF motor was repaired, you can call the Leica Service Center in NJ or Wetzlar and they will check the data base reference the lens serial number and tell you the status.  Depending on if and when the AF motor was replaced,  it may have either the older model motor replaced with the same type motor or the new type motor that became the fix solution.  Preferably the lens should have the newer model motor to have confidence in the lens.  As for the lens "hunting focus" that is just the way that lens works.  As you know, the camera AF detects contrast.  The higher the contrast the lens will achieve focus faster.  So this aspect of the lens is "normal".  Also, S lenses on SL and SL2 cameras achieve focus slower.  I have found with the S3, the S120 doesn't hunt as much.  A quick call to Leica Customer Care at Wetzlar that is open, can tell you the status of your AF motor relative to your lens.  Check the Leica website for their phone number and email address.   Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

Edited June 17, 2020 by LeicaR10

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[Daniel81]

Hi Mark,  Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.  All great insights and advice.  Much appreciated.  Daniel.

[Daniel81]

Hi Mark - and anyone else -  . . . . so I was informed today (by the dealer, who I trust) that the AF motor on this lens was replaced in 2019 which would certainly mean it was fixed with a new type motor.  I guess the only lingering / nagging question I have is - is that repair solid and reliable as far as we know (2019 was only a year ago so its not been tested enough to completely know) or should I be feeling tenuous about it at all.  What is the Leica track record on such things.  I got the lens for 55% off the price of a new one - but still, for me, its a huge amount of money.  I just want to know about the Leica track record on such matters and if I can feel confident this lens is now up for a full life-time of use.  Any candid insights appreciated.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Daniel81 said:

Hi Mark - and anyone else -  . . . . so I was informed today (by the dealer, who I trust) that the AF motor on this lens was replaced in 2019 which would certainly mean it was fixed with a new type motor.  I guess the only lingering / nagging question I have is - is that repair solid and reliable as far as we know (2019 was only a year ago so its not been tested enough to completely know) or should I be feeling tenuous about it at all.  What is the Leica track record on such things.  I got the lens for 55% off the price of a new one - but still, for me, its a huge amount of money.  I just want to know about the Leica track record on such matters and if I can feel confident this lens is now up for a full life-time of use.  Any candid insights appreciated.

I have yet to read or hear about a single failure with the new AF motor fix.  They should be able to confirm not only the date of your repair, but that it was the new mechanism, not the old.  If so, don’t sweat it.  Nothing is perfect, but the fix seems robust.

Jeff 

 

[LeicaR10]

Hi Daniel,  This is good news your lens has the newer motor.   Based on my long experience with the S system dating back to 2009, the current AF motor replacement is a fix that works.  Over the years, I had 5 S lenses with AF motor failure; 2 while testing them in two different Leica stores and 3 that I own.  In my case, all my lenses were repaired at Leica Wetzlar.  The lenses work like a charm and so far no issues with the new model AF motors.  I take my S system to very remote locations with formable weather conditions and no issues.  I think with the new AF motor, you can have confidence with the lens.  Right now, used S lenses from most dealers are an exceptional buy, most are 1/2 price.  The only issue, you need to ask the dealer for the document proving the AF motor was replaced.  If you buy the lens, make sure you get Leica document proving the AF motor was replaced.  You will need the document if you ever decide to sell or trade the lens.  No document, I wouldn't buy it.  I also ask the dealer what is their store warranty period and get that in writing.  Last, I would only buy a used S lens if the AF motor replacement was made after late 2018.  The new model AF motors were starting to be installed around that time.  Enjoy creating great photographs!  Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

Edited June 18, 2020 by LeicaR10

[mgrayson3]

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Hmmm. I had seven lenses "upgraded" in April 2018, and I *thought* that that was upon the new motor announcement. Now I never had a motor fail before or since, but I'd be disappointed to have spent a few thousand dollars to no benefit.

Matt

[Daniel81]

Thank you Mark - thats all very reassuring and yes, the box came with the repair certificate from Leica.  If I can indulge your generosity one more time - because I have no experience with this lens (S 120 Summarit Macro) . . .I have a couple of questions . . . . (1) when I use Autofocus, it almost always hunts for focus by FIRST moving focus AWAY (in the opposite direction) from the subject i am focussing on, all the way to infinity and only then reverses itself and moves towards focus - I have never experienced that kind of behaviour on an AF lens before - they usually seem to know which direction to move the focus mechanism towards the subject right away - this 'long way around' takes a long time . . . . (2)once it has achieved focus, then it seems it can take several seconds during which I no longer hear the AF mechanism, but I do hear something mechanical - during this time the image through the viewfinder is all lit up and pressing the shutter does nothing - and then finally, the image in the viewfinder darkens and then pressing the shutter all the way, actuates.  Are these 'normal behaviours' for this lens??  Or perhaps unique to putting it on an SL body?  And finally, (3) is it more common to just override this somewhat laborious AF process and use Manual focus with this lens?  Its a beast of a lens and I can see its capacity to render stunning images is exceptional - just making sure all of these AF behaviours are normal for this lens!  Thanks again for your time and insights.

[LeicaR10]

Hi Daniel,  The sequence you described and sounds of the lens working to achieve focus is how this lens operates on the SL.  On the S007 the S120 lens hunts, motor makes sounds and eventually finds focus.  With the S3, it achieves focus a bit faster.  I have owned my current S120 for about 6+ years and one AF motor replacement.  I did own a SL & SL2 and tried the S lenses on those cameras.  The S120 operated that same way for me as you described.  It can take what seems to be several seconds to achieve focus with the SL.  If you need fast AF on the SL, you will need either SL lenses or perhaps other L mount lenses. To answer your last question, if you want to narrow focus faster with the S120, I found manual focus first to be best method and will lessen your frustration with the slow focus hunting back and forth.  The S120 is a superb lens for different genres of photography and renders beautifully as you can see for yourself.  The SL/SL2 cameras are excellent cameras that are able to work across several Leica lenses lines...but the fact remains, Leica lenses work best on the intended system cameras. If you wish, feel free to drop me an email message and I will be more than happy to help you.  Hope this helps.  r/ Mark