Ebay works for me...

[charlesphoto99]

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I've had no problem buying and selling form ebay. Things to keep in mind:

 

Selling: I rate conservatively and describe every aspect of my equipment. I f there's a light scuff somewhere I describe it. No surprises and everyone that buys is very happy. I also put up as many good pics as I can - worth the extra $1. if a potential buyer is being funny (asking too many questions, wants to pay in a strange way, etc) I just refuse to sell to them. Post all the questions and your replies. Set the rules and stick by them.

 

Buying: If it's too good to be true it's too good to be true. End of story. Buy from sellers that post their ads as you do - clear pics and good descriptions and easy answers to questions.

 

Ebay is great because you can sell obscure items for a good price as one reaches such a large audience. But one must use common sense otherwise it's most likely only yourself to blame.

[gareth_c]

Second, feedback is a joke. Sellers do not give feedback when you pay. They wait for you to give feedback and threatten bad feedback to anyone who complains about late shipping, bad product or the like. Feedback is ebays "game of chicken" and is not reliable.

 

 

Yes, this is a serious issue in my mind. I can't see why ebay can't simply enforce a seller first policy when it comes to feedback.

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[cwf]

In my limited experience on eBay, it seems to be custom (not universal, however) that the buyer gives feedback first (after delivery and inspection) and then the seller.

 

This does seem kind of backwards because the buyer performs the auction contract first by paying and then the seller performs by delivering promptly the goods as described. I suppose sellers are rightly concerned about buyer complaints and holding back on feedback until after the buyer has indicated things are o.k. (by giving postive feedback) provides some protection.

 

There is, imho, serious grade inflation on feedback because of the mutuality. Nonetheless, if somebody has 1000 sales and is +999 I am generally quite comfortable because one unhappy buyer is more suspect than a seller with 999 happy buyers.

 

Whatever its flaws, the feedback system does tend toward making sellers and buyers behave responsibly.

[carstenw]

I think it makes more sense for the buyer to start, since the money is always good, but the sold item not. This allows both parties to try to find a solution if there is some problem.

[tecumseh]

Just a warning about a guy on eBay who scammed me. His eBay name is

tony140_6 and he calls himself Tony Davis, PayPal name Pascal Young selling an M6 with three lenses. He is listed as being in Coventry, West Midlands, England but claims the camera is at his "shop" in Austria. I lost £1,300 to this prick. PayPal returned £188 from the fraudster's account and are trying to get the rest. Has anyone had money returned successfully through eBay? I've been eBaying for five years without a hitch. Should of seen this coming!

 

 

Now that the guy has made some money he'll pobably try again the ad that guzzumped be reads as follows

 

Leica M6 body

50mm summicron Lens

90mm Elmarit Lens

28mm 4th version Elmarit Lens

Protective filters

Boxes

Warranty card

The items are in excellent condition. No damage on the lens glass or the camera body. They have been very well taken care of.

The item will be shipped from our store in Austria.

Please contact me for any questions.

[dseelig]

I just bought a 35 titanuim 1.4 aspherical form a guy in portugal he had 1 feedback. I sent him a messege how can I trust him he sent me to his photo.net page long history there and nice work posted there. I paid with a credit card through paypal just in case credit cards will fight for you paypal if through your bank, does not do alot. I recieved the lens in pretty much the shape described and it works perfectly so far on my m8 no focus shift and sharp wide open. PS before I got my m8 while waiting for my dealer to get it I sent my original aspherical 35 1.4 in for coding leica told me it would not work with an m8 . I sold it the new owner put it on an m8 he told me and it was great. i bought a newer model asph it was garbage. finally I was told that people were having better luck with the chrome and titanuim well for me it was true.

[marknorton]

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I agree, it's important to try to research your seller.

 

For the lens I referred to in the original post, I did some research to check out the seller - who had a feedback rating of 1 - once I knew her name and before paying. I found out enough to assure me the transaction was OK.

 

Easy to say after the fact, but if you look at tony140_6's record in ebay, there were warning signs. Someone who spends £410 on a 13 year old car from someone who is himself no longer a registered ebayer is unlikely to be selling Leicas legitimately. Very sorry you had the problem though, £1300 is a huge amount to lose and hopefully you might get more of it back. Not good.

 

David, pity you sold that 35mm Summilux Aspherical based on Leica saying it wouldn't work. They're speaking in a foreign language and the meaning might not come across exactly, just as yours might not if you tried to speak in German. What they meant to say, I feel sure, was that the lens could not be coded or more precisely, has not had a code assigned to it, not that you couldn't use it at all on an M8.

[stephengilbert]

I twice had problems with eBay purchases: once a fake Sandisk card, once a small item never delivered. I paid for both through Paypal using my VISA card rather than my bank account. In each case my credit card company refunded my money, presumably taking it back from Paypal. In only the SD card case did I try to get Paypal to make good; they took forever and I gave up when it appeared that the 60 days in which my credit card issuer would act would expire before Paypal did anything.

[dseelig]

Just to make a public. There was no language problem. I was talking to Leica in New Jersey where I had sent my lens. One of many reasons I am upset with leica. David

[marknorton]

And as I said to you in a pm, David, it's especially disappointing then that you were given bad information by Leica that lead you to sell your 35/1.4 Aspherical.

[pekem]

 

Second, feedback is a joke. Sellers do not give feedback when you pay. They wait for you to give feedback and threatten bad feedback to anyone who complains about late shipping, bad product or the like. Feedback is ebays "game of chicken" and is not reliable.

.

 

In view of eBay's new policy of denying the seller from commenting on a transaction I wonder if your worries will be reduced or increased.

[stunsworth]

As a sometimes buyer _and_ seller I think the new rule stinks.

 

My worst experience as a seller was from someone who won the auction for an M2 and then refused to pay because it was too expensive - sorry for repeating this tale. Under the new rules I'd be able to do nothing about it other than to complain to eBay.

 

Once day when mooching around eBay I came across someone with a feedback of -5 or thereabouts. Looking at the auctions it was clear that he'd wanted a particular mobile phone, so he'd bid, and won, on about 6 auctions. He'd then only paid the one with the lowest price. Under the new system he'd be free to continue doing this until eBay suspended his account and no one would be the wiser.

 

<fx> gets off soap boc <grin>

[stevelap]

Just a warning about a guy on eBay who scammed me. His eBay name is

tony140_6 and he calls himself Tony Davis, PayPal name Pascal Young selling an M6 with three lenses. He is listed as being in Coventry, West Midlands, England but claims the camera is at his "shop" in Austria. I lost £1,300 to this prick. PayPal returned £188 from the fraudster's account and are trying to get the rest. Has anyone had money returned successfully through eBay? I've been eBaying for five years without a hitch. Should of seen this coming!

 

 

Now that the guy has made some money he'll pobably try again the ad that guzzumped be reads as follows

 

Leica M6 body

50mm summicron Lens

90mm Elmarit Lens

28mm 4th version Elmarit Lens

Protective filters

Boxes

Warranty card

The items are in excellent condition. No damage on the lens glass or the camera body. They have been very well taken care of.

The item will be shipped from our store in Austria.

Please contact me for any questions.

This sounds very similar to a scam that I've seen before, although it wasn't Leica but Canon in this instance.

 

The seller's ID (UK, Midlands) was stolen, the Austrian 'business' owners name was stolen from an innocent farmer in the mountains and the web domain registrant for a subsequently discovered associated business (BC Hardware.com) has, so far, been traced to an individual in Barcelona!

 

The hunt goes on, via banks, trading standards and the police across the EU. I'm tempted to say that I will pursue this 'bar steward' to the ends of the earth, and beyond. It's more likely though that he/she/they will never be caught, as apparantly it's often the case that this type of scam is quite a sophisticated, even organised, crime.

 

Steve

[JHAG]

I bought quite a few Leica lenses on eBay, at excellent prices (Noct : 2000 dollars = 1600 euros / mint ; 180 APO R : 2200 dollars = 1700 euros / brand new) , without a glitch.

My rule : talk to the seller on the phone ; have his complete address (and possibly ID or passport copy) and double-check it before paying ; ship through Fedex (best carrier ever) to have everything in order regarding customs, etc.

To my knowledge, best Leica and Hasselblad/Rollei dealer there are in the US and Sweden. Germany is not bad (large market), but dealers there are more "relaxed" regarding the ratings of the gear they sell, and often don't accept Paypal. I bought one R 60 mm in just good condition rated "mint". Lens works perfectly though, and I paid it 200 euros, so I cannot complain either.

The only dishonest seller for me was in the UK : it was a "mint" cellphone (I needed a backup) which was a monument of raw disgust, with something like earwax and hairs in the earpice:eek:. To top it all, the guy was absolutely rude, claiming to refund me half the price provided I sent him the phone back at my cost. eBay offered me a refund and hopefully sentenced the seller to the galleys.

That anecdote teached me a lesson, for what it's worth : apart scams from stolen eBay account, dishonest sellers might be more frequent for small price items from characters not selling much. With any high feedback seller (or even more so with "PowerSellers"), problems do seem very rare.

And like everyone seems to already know, here, each time I bought expensive items, I received painful streams of scammer's mails afterwards.

But there are surely buyers less fortunate than me : a guy in Poland googled me and found me in this forum, because he saw I had warned members here about a Leica item which was an obvious scam (I had warned eBay too, but my, my, they're just slow). The seller, in Romania I believe, ripped him off 640 euros… I could not help the poor guy:(, because obviously I had no more information about the scammer.

[innerimager]

Just completed another excellent e-bay transaction. Got an 5 month old M8 with 900 shutter releases, with handgrip and 2 filters for $3800. As always, I contacted and called the seller before bidding. He was clearly a trustworthy guy. Just having him share his work tel# (university based) and cell # adds to the comfort level. I also established his willingness to help with any warranty repair needed, and it came in mint condition. best...Peter

[stevelap]

I too have made many a successful deal on ebay, and know the rules and most of the scams. But if you're unlucky it's still possible to get caught out.

 

For example I recently bought an expensive item, not photography related, after taking all the precautions including speaking to the seller on the phone.

Surprise, surprise the parcel then went missing in the mail. The seller provided original proof of posting documents, including the stamped and dated Royal Mail Special Delivery (insured, trackable) receipt and the Post Office till receipt, but after four-months Royal Mail have just told me that they won't honour the insurance because 'they can't confirm that the package was ever in their possession'!

 

Now if the seller was somehow involved then he's either an expert forger (when I handed in my claim for with proof of posting the post office staff said that the documents were genuine) or has someone on the inside at the post office where the parcel was posted.

Needless to say I am pursuing Royal Mail over this via their regulator, Postwatch, and my solicitor if necessary, but as soon as you mention 'ebay' you can see eyes roll and hear the sucking of teeth, lol.

 

I'm not looking for sympathy by the way, nor tips on how to use ebay, but my point is that with every transaction you are in effect taking a calculated risk, I guess my calculations were in error on that occasion!

 

Steve

[pekem]

I too have made many a successful deal on ebay, and know the rules and most of the scams. But if you're unlucky it's still possible to get caught out.

 

For example I recently bought an expensive item, not photography related, after taking all the precautions including speaking to the seller on the phone.

Surprise, surprise the parcel then went missing in the mail. The seller provided original proof of posting documents, including the stamped and dated Royal Mail Special Delivery (insured, trackable) receipt and the Post Office till receipt, but after four-months Royal Mail have just told me that they won't honour the insurance because 'they can't confirm that the package was ever in their possession'!

 

Now if the seller was somehow involved then he's either an expert forger (when I handed in my claim for with proof of posting the post office staff said that the documents were genuine) or has someone on the inside at the post office where the parcel was posted.

Needless to say I am pursuing Royal Mail over this via their regulator, Postwatch, and my solicitor if necessary, but as soon as you mention 'ebay' you can see eyes roll and hear the sucking of teeth, lol.

 

I'm not looking for sympathy by the way, nor tips on how to use ebay, but my point is that with every transaction you are in effect taking a calculated risk, I guess my calculations were in error on that occasion!

 

Steve

 

 

It is a matter for the seller to deal with Royal Mail, not you. Did you use a credit card to pay because this might well have provided recourse?

[JHAG]

@Steve, I feel sorry for you.

It surely is sobering…

Hope Royal Mail will defer to your plea.

[stevelap]

Pekem,

 

"It is a matter for the seller to deal with Royal Mail, not you...."

 

That used to be the only way but In fact these days Royal Mail will accept claims from either the sender or intended recipient, so as I was going to be the one out of pocket I made the claim.

If the sender is somehow involved it's clever, as now of course he can say that if he were to make a refund he wouldn't be able to then claim against the insurance himself, as he no longer has the receipts!

 

sthan,

 

Thanks

 

Steve

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[JHAG]

Steve,

Did you check with police, Interpol or whatever if this is an organized scammer ?

 

If he's so clever and "on business" for a while, he might be already known.

Just my 2 cents : a few weeks ago, I received daily junk & porn mail. After checking, I realised this was coming from a website pool on which I registered for some gear. I asked them to stop this, and as they were not complying, I filed a complaint on the FBI website directly. Porn mail stopped within 72 hours.