My first Leica experience

[Casey Jefferson]

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Good day,

I've posted at the M lenses section as my first appearance and I used a 50 lux asph on GFX 50R as I try to resist dipping into the Leica world. But with all the shortcomings, I couldn't resist anymore and bought myself an M240 as the price had since become much more affordable, and so happened that a 35 cron asph v1 popped up for sale, as a long term 35mm shooter, so...

What a difference. Now I know what people meant when they say the range finder experience. Don't knock it until you try it 😂. The 35 cron was a perfect match on the M240, an evening of shooting proven that any distance and aperture the RF focus was always dead on, and I can shoot liberally with focus and recompose for rule of 1/3 and it'll be dead on. The DOF of 35mm f2 seems like a match for the RF too. And the raw files...I downloaded quite some raw files to play with and found them to be very different than anything I've tried (M4/3, RX1R, Sony FF, GFX). Technical side of things, yes, M240 raw files dynamic range and high ISO isn't quite as good as even the RX1R from the same era. The metering wasn't something I'm used to, too. But boy the Leica colors, and the contrast of the combo.😳 Isn't it all that matters?

On a side note though, I tried the 50 lux asph on it, immediately I had problem nailing focus. Shot the same way as the 35 cron and I probably gotten only 1 or 2 out of 10 shots in focus. Recompose didn't work, I suspect the 50 lux has quite a field curvature and at midfield it almost feel like nothing was really in focus. A mismatch calibration? Focus shift? Anyway I generally dislike the focal length so it'll leave my bag really soon...

All in all I'm extremely happy with my purchase. When I save up enough, and when M11 is out in the market, I'll grab a used M10-D for a reduced price...

Hope to share some photos very soon.

[pippy]

Hi Casey and welcome to RF-World!

Really happy to read that you loved the 35 but there must be something strange going on with the 240 / 50 pairing. I know it's a PITA to do but If I were in your shoes I'd set up a simple-but-accurate calibration-check with the M240 tripod-mounted before I decided to let it go.

Whatever you decide, though, good fortune and have fun!

Philip.

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[Casey Jefferson]

44 minutes ago, pippy said:

Hi Casey and welcome to RF-World!

Really happy to read that you loved the 35 but there must be something strange going on with the 240 / 50 pairing. I know it's a PITA to do but If I were in your shoes I'd set up a simple-but-accurate calibration-check with the M240 tripod-mounted before I decided to let it go.

Whatever you decide, though, good fortune and have fun!

Philip.

Thank you Philip!

I probably not going to perform the test as I didn't like the focal length as much as 35mm, I generally find it more "boring" as I've been shooting with 35mm for years to appreciate the rich perspective it brings as more things are in the frame (at the expense of more challenging composition). And I'm glad to feel it that way as the lux are pricey...

But I'll definitely bring this topic to the lens section, initially my dream lens would be the 35 FLE and I actually had a chance to buy it at a killer deal but the way Leica designed the lens to compromise sharpness across the frame for rendering is definitely very interesting.

[Ko.Fe.]

https://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

I used it after I realized what center and recompose isn't working well with 50 1.8 lens on FF sensor. 

[Kwesi]

1 hour ago, Casey Jefferson said:

Thank you Philip!

I probably not going to perform the test as I didn't like the focal length as much as 35mm, I generally find it more "boring" as I've been shooting with 35mm for years to appreciate the rich perspective it brings as more things are in the frame (at the expense of more challenging composition). And I'm glad to feel it that way as the lux are pricey...

But I'll definitely bring this topic to the lens section, initially my dream lens would be the 35 FLE and I actually had a chance to buy it at a killer deal but the way Leica designed the lens to compromise sharpness across the frame for rendering is definitely very interesting.

What do you mean by

"the way Leica designed the lens to compromise sharpness across the frame for rendering is definitely very interesting."

And why did it stop you from buying the 35 FLE?

 

[Casey Jefferson]

4 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

https://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

I used it after I realized what center and recompose isn't working well with 50 1.8 lens on FF sensor. 

For DSLR and mirrorless we can choose the closest focus point instead of recompose, so not much of an issue. When the only focus is in the middle, it'll be a hit and miss.

2 hours ago, Kwesi said:

What do you mean by

"the way Leica designed the lens to compromise sharpness across the frame for rendering is definitely very interesting."

And why did it stop you from buying the 35 FLE?

 

I tried again with the 50lux and in short, I stand corrected, it was indeed a user error. So the quoted phrase doesn't apply here, my bad. My experience with that lens adapted on non-leica body was pretty bad, and the RF mismatched of the 50 and m240 made me jumped into conclusion too quickly.

Basically I'm getting better result using LV and recomposing seem to work now. However I still feel it's a challenge to get this particular lens to focus well. I've already experience it on adapted body, manual focus with 1.4 is just very difficult to nail. I admire the bokeh and the rendering though. Hopefully this will change my view on getting the FLE (the owner withdrawn the sale, hopefully he'll put it on sale again). So much to learn about all the new behaviours of the RF system.

 

 

[Ko.Fe.]

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7 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

For DSLR and mirrorless we can choose the closest focus point instead of recompose, so not much of an issue. When the only focus is in the middle, it'll be a hit and miss.

I tried again with the 50lux and in short, I stand corrected, it was indeed a user error. So the quoted phrase doesn't apply here, my bad. My experience with that lens adapted on non-leica body was pretty bad, and the RF mismatched of the 50 and m240 made me jumped into conclusion too quickly.

Basically I'm getting better result using LV and recomposing seem to work now. However I still feel it's a challenge to get this particular lens to focus well. I've already experience it on adapted body, manual focus with 1.4 is just very difficult to nail. I admire the bokeh and the rendering though. Hopefully this will change my view on getting the FLE (the owner withdrawn the sale, hopefully he'll put it on sale again). So much to learn about all the new behaviours of the RF system.

 

 

This is why I used DoF calculator. To see if center focus point and recomosing will still works. It is about aperture and distance. With DSLR it still needs to be considered if object in focus is at the edge of the frame where no focus points are. And not all of the mirrorless have entire frame covered with focusing points. I trust focus point blink more than my eye with DSLRs, mirrorless.

I have seen people who can't focus with RF at all. They just can't get two images together. I can't see how it is possible to learn it. It looks like sort of individual variation. To me RF focusing with 35 1.4 and 50 1.5 is no different from 35 3.5 and 50 3.5 focusing. But I struggle to get images in focus with manual focusing SLRs. 

BTW, with object in relatively close focus and background in distance bokeh will happen @f5.6.

[Casey Jefferson]

3 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

This is why I used DoF calculator. To see if center focus point and recomosing will still works. It is about aperture and distance. With DSLR it still needs to be considered if object in focus is at the edge of the frame where no focus points are. And not all of the mirrorless have entire frame covered with focusing points. I trust focus point blink more than my eye with DSLRs, mirrorless.

I have seen people who can't focus with RF at all. They just can't get two images together. I can't see how it is possible to learn it. It looks like sort of individual variation. To me RF focusing with 35 1.4 and 50 1.5 is no different from 35 3.5 and 50 3.5 focusing. But I struggle to get images in focus with manual focusing SLRs. 

BTW, with object in relatively close focus and background in distance bokeh will happen @f5.6.

With 35 cron asph, I can nail focus pretty much with 100% predictability wide open, I know when I'm nailing focus and when I'm slightly uncertain e.g. when lights are dim or target lacking in contrast. Recompose works reasonably well even at minimum focus distance.

Not so with the 50lux. It's definitely not agreeing with the RF, and I felt it's off by quite a lot. I still didn't like the focal length enough to send it in for adjustment so will look for a new home for it.

[jaapv]

The Summilux 50 asph is well known for calibration issues, due to the extreme tolerances in the floating element section. However, once recalibrated by Leica, it is a joy to use.

[Casey Jefferson]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

The Summilux 50 asph is well known for calibration issues, due to the extreme tolerances in the floating element section. However, once recalibrated by Leica, it is a joy to use.

I wish I liked the focal length enough to do so, but if anything I'm aiming for the 35mm FLE in the future if I have a chance to come by an affordable one, and one that'll work right out of the box.

I've since shoot with Leica for a week now and happy to report that rangefinder, when calibrated correctly, is very accurate to focus. It's slower than AF but I find I can even focus with more precision in a busy scene than a focus box, where the camera often don't focus exactly where I wanted. Worse with contrast detect sometimes it'll give a green box with nothing in focus...Another bonus is with Leica I can even focus a moving target like a walking person without a problem, which surprised me!

I've since watched  a lot of Leica lens and body review. There was a review involving 50lux asph where the reviewer (rangefinder shooter) realized his shot weren't in sharp focus and switched to live view for certain tests. I can imagine anyone new to Leica will be disappointed and frustrated with RF in general with a mismiatched combo. I was lucky to shoot with a beautifully matched lens and I can't put it down whenever I pick it up! Everyday I'll have that itch to take it out of the bag just to shoot something boring. 😂

Edited June 10, 2020 by Casey Jefferson

[jaapv]

When selling the lens you will have to disclose the issues it has; that will impact the value significantly.

However, most perceived gear issues by beginners are user error.

 

From the FAQ:

Quote

Question: I come from an autofocus camera background. What is the best way to get good focus on an M camera?

 

The Leica M works the same way as any rangefinder camera, the central patch in the viewfinder is your focusing tool.

It is important to look through the viewfinder in the optical axis. Looking into the camera skewed will result in inaccurate focus.

 

The first thing to do is to ascertain that you can see the rangefinder patch properly. A correct match between the rangefinder and your eye is even more important than it is using an SLR.

Leica sells corrective diopter lenses. Determining which one you need - if any- can be done by going to your optician and holding his try-out lenses between your eye and the viewfinder. The one that allows you to see the rangefinder patch and framelines sharply is the correct one. Order the nearest value from Leica. In a pinch you can use over-the-counter reading glasses for this test. If your eyes need special corrections, you can use your spectacles, provided you can see clearly at 2 metres distance ( the virtual distance of the rangefinder patch). Note that the background will be at background distance,so your eye should ideally be able to accomodate over the distance differential. However, there is some tolerance here.

 

For special cases there are viewfinder magnifiers. They can help, especially with longer and fast lenses and they can give confidence, but they can also be not very useful; they cannot correct errors in the focusing mechanism or your eye, in fact they magnify them.

Also, one loses contrast and brightness.

Leica offers a 1.25x one and a 1.4x. These need dioptre correction like the camera, but often of a different value than the camera viewfinder. There are special dioptres for astigmatism sold by Walterleica.

 

There are also third-party magnifiers, sold by Japan Exposures, that include a variable diopter correction. 1.15x and 1.35x. For patent reasons they cannot be sold in the USA and Germany for use on a Leica camera, but they can be purchased for use on for instance a rifle scope.

 

Basically, for an experienced user, magnifiers are not needed and will only lower contrast and brightness, but many users do like and use them.

 

Once the viewfinder is corrected optimally, there are three methods of focusing, in ascending order of difficulty aka training.

 

1. The broken line method. Look for a vertical line in the image and bring it together in the rangefinder patch to be continuous.

 

2. The coincidence method. Look for a pattern in the image and bring it together to coincide. This may lead to errors with repeating patterns.

 

3. The contrast method. Once you have focus by method 1. or 2. a small adjustment will cause the rangefinder patch to "jump" into optimum contrast. At that point you have the most precise focussing adjustment.

 

Side remark:

 

If you try focusing on a subject emitting polarized light like a reflection it may happen that the polarizing effect of the prism system in the rangefinder will blot out the contrast in the rangefinder patch, making focusing difficult. In that case rotate the camera 90 degrees to focus.

 

[barcoimage]

My first Leica camera was an M8 and honestly, I feel like the images from that camera are spectacular, even today. I posted a video of some of the images I took with that camera. You can check them out at this link, My first Leica Camera