Ambro51 Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share #41 Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Possibly.....the camera above, the one with the Compur, is the most “famous” of the four. Those fine photographs were taken in 1977. Unfortunately, this camera was burnt up (along with 7 other JPA cameras) in a Museum fire. So, it only exists in memories, descriptions and photographs. I’m 100% certain I’ll have it “in hand” in two weeks (or less). This one should be really challenging and interesting to create. It was intentionally built as an “undercover” ‘street photography’ type of camera. The story of 313 and Rosenberg, Peter Kilfit and JP Andersen is strange, interesting and informative. .....one snippet, there exists a 17 page letter from Rosenberg ranting about repair times, JPAs indifference to suggested changes, complaints about costs....the “Customer from Hell”. Possibly, this is the reason JPA stopped building, he was about 76 years old at time. Rosenberg used the camera into the 1940s!•••••••BTW. My research shows the 1905 date is inaccurate. Work on the series of four cameras began in 1917 and modifications to a “completed version” concluded in 1924. So, Oskar and the UR were definately earlier. Edited June 19, 2020 by Ambro51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 Hi Ambro51, Take a look here 1905 Jens Poul Andersen 35mm Camera, info and details sought... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ambro51 Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share #42 Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) Btw, this prototype 35mm still Camera dates from the late 1890s!! (and Yes I wast one .....hmmmm This Camera was seen by Andersen. It was without doubt his inspiration. It never “worked”, or went beyond this stage. Looks like an interesting build if I can get more images of it. 🙂 (Vilh. Pacht (1843.1912) and the prototype of a 35mm cinema camera he worked with at the turn of the century. The camera can be found at the Technical Museum of Denmark.) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 19, 2020 by Ambro51 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310230-1905-jens-poul-andersen-35mm-camera-info-and-details-sought/?do=findComment&comment=3995961'>More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 20, 2020 Share #43 Posted June 20, 2020 love your work- keen to see what else you come up with. Keep it up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share #44 Posted June 20, 2020 (If you want to see “what I do”, www.starcameracompany.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacey Posted June 21, 2020 Share #45 Posted June 21, 2020 This is so cool!!! Thanks for sharing Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share #46 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) I made a few modifications. JP Andersen used brass screws, so I replaced the blue steel ones. I lined the camera interior behind the Lens with black velvet, and placed a card and velvet behind the ground glass to make sure of no light leaks from the back “door”. Realizing JP Andersen was a Genius, I decided to replicate the brass finder. Helped by finding his notes online and seeing what’s inside the finder made this possible. While it looks like it just projects an image on ground glass, instead it is made from three positive lenses and a mirror! The middle lens has a rectangular mask. It’s an “eye to the hood” finder, not waist level.•••• While a complicates little thing to make, I feel that to really honor JPA I had to do the recreation “his way” Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 22, 2020 by Ambro51 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310230-1905-jens-poul-andersen-35mm-camera-info-and-details-sought/?do=findComment&comment=3997204'>More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 23, 2020 Share #47 Posted June 23, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 6/22/2020 at 1:02 AM, Ambro51 said: I lined the camera interior behind the Lens with black velvet, and placed a card and velvet behind the ground glass to make sure of no light leaks from the back “door”. I use blackboard paint when repainting plate camera interiors - velvet always seems like a dust trap it has exposed surfaces inside the camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share #48 Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) I’ve begun recreating JPA 313. Perhaps the most interesting, historic, well used 35mm camera of the four. Built, rebuilt, sent back and forth for years for tweaks, great Tessar lens and Compur shutter....today, an archive of over 1500 negatives taken by 313 around the World by Holger Rosenberg still exist. The format is 31x58 mm. While these negatives were used by the Denmark Illustrated Family Journal, Rosenberg employer, many were made into hand tinted color slides for projection.They are a “street photo” legacy taken with the First discreet point and shoot 35. Silent, reliable and Not looking like a camera of the day. Rosenberg Wanted a camera that looked like a “piece of lumber”, so as not to frighten the “wild men” he photographed!.•••••••So here we go. The shutter arrived as part of a 1919 Ica Icarette. While the shutter is basically identical, the built into the case fittings for the Ica finder and Ica mount needed to be ground off, smoothed and repainted black. That’s Done. Now, putting pen to paper and making full scale drawings of what goes where and what it does. I’ve figured how to link the shutter. Now, the film transport. How did JPA move imporforate 35mm film a precise distance, and keep it there during the exposure???? Simple, basically a pin was stuck through the middle of the film at one end of the gate, then skid over 62 mm and the pin and film stick into a little recess. To move the film after the shot... lift pin out, move back and repeat. There are two knurled nuts on the base of the camera.? I’m thinking these are on spring washers to control tensions of film feed. •••• What’s really cool here is this is a recreation of a unique camera that was destroyed 42 years ago in a Museum fire! Now it will (symbolically) live and shoot again. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 26, 2020 by Ambro51 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310230-1905-jens-poul-andersen-35mm-camera-info-and-details-sought/?do=findComment&comment=3999773'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 27, 2020 Share #49 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) I have a WW1 vintage 35mm camera a Richards Versacope, stereo camera, made in Paris, France. However it does not use a roll of film but cut strips of 35mm, each slid into an aluminium carrier. The magazine holds 10 film strip carriers and by a very clever mechanism with an automatic dark slide, when you slide the magazine to one side, a new film strip carrier is extracted from the back of the magazine and then slid in front of the exposed film as the magazine is slid shut, the flexible steel strip dark slide, moving automatically out of the way. The early versions of this camera from 1893, used 45 x 107mm very thin glass plates with the film strip versions starting around 1910. The early film strip versions were one of the first cameras to use 4 element Zeiss Tessar lenses. During WW1, the Zeiss lenses became unobtainable and the cameras were in demand as early aerial cameras, as there was a very positive advantage in the stereo photographs for identifying ground structures and the auto loading was an additional benefit. The magazines with another 10 stereo negatives, could be changed in seconds, which was far easier than the large format cameras of the early war period, with their turn over slide carriers, producing just 2 images. Richards got a optical manufacturer in Paris to copy the Zeiss Tessar lenses and fitted these to new cameras, under their own brand name engraved on the lens surround. Also similar to later Leicas, it had a high shutter speed dial and a low shutter speed dial. The viewfinder has its own lens, mounted in the front focusing lens carrying panel between the two imaging lenses, so effectively making the camera a triple lens reflex, with each of the imaging lenses, having its own but linked helicoid. Wilson Edited June 27, 2020 by wlaidlaw 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 27, 2020 Share #50 Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said: .....with each of the imaging lenses, having its own but linked helicoid. Oddly enough, the use of helicoids to focus is something that I've been looking into. I'm back to 1858 so far and again oddly enough this was also for stereo lenses, where one was focussed using the helicoid and the other then adjusted to the same setting engraved on its helicoid mount. If anyone has any information about helicoids being used to focus camera lenses prior to this I would be interested. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share #51 Posted June 27, 2020 Focus is something with 313 controlled by a dial. I’m thinking this dial in connected by a fixed belt to the front lens panel. Not much movement is required. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted June 27, 2020 Share #52 Posted June 27, 2020 Apologies if I am getting confused. Last week we were discussing a rim set Compur. Are you proposing to use a dial set Compur such as this one? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! With cameras, which were not view cameras, such as this 1922 Contessa Cocarette Luxus, focus was often achieved by means of a lever and wheel arrangement with linkages which moved the bellows along a rail. Apologies for the poor quality of this photo, but it should give an idea as to how focus was achieved. Helicoid models did not come into common use until around the time of the first 'Leicas' which had a helicoid lens focus mechanism. Prior to that, a bellows was the most common focus mechanism. In the early daguerreotype cameras in the 1840s a sliding box arrangement, with one box inside another box, was a common way of achieving focus, but from the 1850s and 60s onwards the bellows became the most common way of achieving focus. In the late 1850s Thomas Grubb of Dublin experimented with lenses with a helicoid mechanism and they are among the earliest to have that feature. Below is an example of such a lens from my collection. This was about 60 years ahead of its time as most lenses of that era did not have any focus mechanism. I hope that the above information is of benefit to you. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! With cameras, which were not view cameras, such as this 1922 Contessa Cocarette Luxus, focus was often achieved by means of a lever and wheel arrangement with linkages which moved the bellows along a rail. Apologies for the poor quality of this photo, but it should give an idea as to how focus was achieved. Helicoid models did not come into common use until around the time of the first 'Leicas' which had a helicoid lens focus mechanism. Prior to that, a bellows was the most common focus mechanism. In the early daguerreotype cameras in the 1840s a sliding box arrangement, with one box inside another box, was a common way of achieving focus, but from the 1850s and 60s onwards the bellows became the most common way of achieving focus. In the late 1850s Thomas Grubb of Dublin experimented with lenses with a helicoid mechanism and they are among the earliest to have that feature. Below is an example of such a lens from my collection. This was about 60 years ahead of its time as most lenses of that era did not have any focus mechanism. I hope that the above information is of benefit to you. William ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310230-1905-jens-poul-andersen-35mm-camera-info-and-details-sought/?do=findComment&comment=4000222'>More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share #53 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) Yes and No! The dial set will be on JPA 313. As used on the Ica, it has a 4.7 75mm. Lens, which I can’t use. The Rim set, still coming, has a CZJ 3.5 60mm. So, (without confirmation) I’m hoping to swap elements and cells from the newer to the older shutter. This gets me 60 mm, which is needed with this compact build. ••••I have to remember in my head this camera was “under the knife” and rebuilt from an earlier version. It IS rather complicated as I’m understanding as I sketch it out. In a lot of ways I’m having to reinvent solutions which work and are simple. Finding “where to start” is the purpose of pages of drawings. You need to understand using the thing, making stuff move what you want and using any scrap of info and photos you can get. ••••• it’s just “so” different, yet in a modern context it’s a point and shoot 35. Very interesting in the correspondence is a promise from Rosenberg to Not show the apparatus to others in concern for possible patent/patent infringement issues. I get the notion he was worried Zeiss would have poblems regarding JPAs use (he Was a competeing manufacturer). Who knows.....It looks like the best way to actually get this going to to make a slotted pressure plate. I’m seriously thinking of making a 3/8” hole in it and putting in a small disc of ground glass. Together with a sealable inspection hole n the back, would be a Big help in build and setting focus, (as Leica realized) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 27, 2020 by Ambro51 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310230-1905-jens-poul-andersen-35mm-camera-info-and-details-sought/?do=findComment&comment=4000234'>More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share #54 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) Oh Geez I just figured out JPAs focusing method. The focus wheel is off center and faced as a cam. This bears on the front lens plate (sliding inner box?) which must be springloaded to keep contact pressure with focus cam wheel. Genius... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 27, 2020 by Ambro51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310230-1905-jens-poul-andersen-35mm-camera-info-and-details-sought/?do=findComment&comment=4000282'>More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 27, 2020 Share #55 Posted June 27, 2020 31 minutes ago, Ambro51 said: Oh Geez I just figured out JPAs focusing method. The focus wheel is off center and faced as a cam. This bears on the front lens plate (sliding inner box?) which must be springloaded to keep contact pressure with focus cam wheel. Genius... Are you sure? A sliding box mechanism will have a lot of friction to be adjusted by a side mounted cam. I wonder if the focus method is as you say, but you push in the sliding box in against spring pressure manually, then set the focus wheel, then allow the sliding box to push out and press against the cam which has now been pre-set - this would require at least two springs either side (or even 4 in the corners) but makes sense because this way the friction component of focus is dispensed with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share #56 Posted June 27, 2020 Well this is all tiny little lightweight stuff. It won’t take much force. I see it as a 19th century solution, In cases like this I make a mock-up from scrap and check it’s functionality. I think in most cases he set this camera for parfocal presets. Fun. I got the AC on in the workshop....very eager to create. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted June 27, 2020 Share #57 Posted June 27, 2020 The nearest to furthest movement on my Compur dial mount, shown above, is about 1 cm at the front standard. The film size is 120 as opposed to 35mm on your camera and the necessary lens to film plane difference may also vary. A spring or lever mechanism or a combination of the two might be necessary to move the lens board /plane in and out. On my one there is a small lever under the Compur mount (on the same side as the 'focus wheel' as shown above) for changing aperture and access to this would need to be maintained as well. The lens is 10.5cm f 6.3 , the same spec as that of the Mountain Elmar. A different type of lens, of course, although the Mountain Elmar does have Tessar roots. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share #58 Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) We are Underway. Glitch number one...rim set and dial set Compur 00 lenses are different sizes., So plans to use a 60 mm lens are out. JPA used a F6.8 65, the lens in the dial set is a f4.7 75. It’s only 10 mm and not a dealbreaker for the build. From correspondence it IS possible Rosenberg had the lens custom built by Zeiss (1923). •••••looks like the logical start was with the inner sliding focusing box and front lens panel. Since the Compur has such a short thread distance to mount, I had to make a round metal mounting plate to go between the lens and Front panel. This will be lightly spring loaded to focus with a rotary cam wheel. •••. The odd imporforate film advance using a pin is crude, but I think if set up right will be foolproof. Lots of Fun! It’s like waiting for something you bought, that’s taking awhile to ship. 😉. The Finish Goal is July 5, I bumped into an old friend/coworker from 30 years ago a few days ago, and were having a little “get reacquainted” barbecue! ( You know with all this BS going on in the World it’s a true joy to obsess with a project and exist in a cocoon for awhile) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 29, 2020 by Ambro51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310230-1905-jens-poul-andersen-35mm-camera-info-and-details-sought/?do=findComment&comment=4001236'>More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share #59 Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) I sent a roll of Ektar 100 to Mike Eckman for developing and the results were mixed. There is (was) a light leak, which affected colors ets. But....a crop changed to BW shows incredible promise. “Fortescue”. JPA 311. Ektar film (flipped to BW) Leitz 80 mm Summar Shot at F 11 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 29, 2020 by Ambro51 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310230-1905-jens-poul-andersen-35mm-camera-info-and-details-sought/?do=findComment&comment=4001254'>More sharing options...
Ambro51 Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share #60 Posted June 30, 2020 Well it Does look like a “piece of lumber”, as requested by the buyer, Holger Rosenberg. He travellled to strange lands and photographed candid images. He need a huge film capacity, sharp lens and quality shutter , silent operation and the ability to work undetected. This is what he used. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310230-1905-jens-poul-andersen-35mm-camera-info-and-details-sought/?do=findComment&comment=4001824'>More sharing options...
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