Pushing the Leica M10 to its limits

[Dennis]

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Hi everyone, I hope you are having a terrific weekend 🙌

I would like to ask if you never pushed the M10 (or any M digital) to its limits. I mean shooting thousands of frames in one long assignment/event, or in severe conditions. Did you ever experience any sensor/battery/camera overheating? Any issues?

Why am I asking? For my work, I shoot with a Nikon D5, which is literally a beast. It never leaves you on foot, and it always keeps shooting, no matter what. I would like to include, step by step, my M10 in my workflow. I just need a bit more Rangefinder experience, a couple of different FL lenses, more batteries, and finally, courage. Before I go too far, I would like to know if the M10 can take the hit. Do you know what I mean? Can I compare the M system with a DSLR, for what regards overreach a regular use? I'm not talking about performance, it's just about hard conditions and/or A LOT of clicks, all day long. Every day, I'm more convinced that I could use the M10 for my work. Even though the two systems are entirely different, my way to work and approach remains the same. And to be honest with you lately, I'm enjoying more shooting with an RF instead of a DSLR. Does it make sense?

Your feedback and experience are welcome.
Thank you in advance for your time,
Good vibes

 

[Ecar]

Are you going to use your M10 with LV/EVF always (or frequently) on? If so, the camera will overheat (edit: the battery will also run down pretty fast).

Otherwise, I have never used it as intensively as you seem to intend to use yours, but I really doubt it will take as much abuse as the D5. It's just not designed for that.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Ecar

[arno_nyhm]

Anyway, the M10 was built from a brick of brass , where everything thats not needed for an M10 is beeing reoved - leavuing just an M10. while one could say, the D5 starts over with some diecast parts and is beeing mantled by some plastricparts.

i do not see, why an M10 would take less abuse than a D5.

but...

the wortkflow of a DSLR is quite different to that of a rangefinder. burstrate is different and AF is absent. and then heisenberg kind of hits trhe scene: while the DSLR allows you to see the exact frame you take,while blindung you in the moment you take the picture,  the rangefinder only gives you a vague idea of the future frame you might be taking but therefore leaves you right in the moment. so if the decisive moment matters, the rangefinder might make burstrate obsolete.

if you intend to use the EVF to compensate for the lack of a 100%-frame: forget it. it is a funpart to use. but not more than that. heating and batterydrain are just the more obvious problems. it sits quite wabbly on top of the camera and makes it uncomfortable to handle.

[Ecar]

1 hour ago, arno_nyhm said:

Anyway, the M10 was built from a brick of brass , where everything thats not needed for an M10 is beeing reoved - leavuing just an M10. while one could say, the D5 starts over with some diecast parts and is beeing mantled by some plastricparts.

This is factually incorrect: since the M8, all M cameras are built around a magnesium alloy chassis, just like the D5. Only some parts are actually brass.

1 hour ago, arno_nyhm said:

i do not see, why an M10 would take less abuse than a D5.

One example: lack of full weather sealing. Would you take your M10 out to shoot for a couple of hours under pouring rain? Not sure this is a good example though, as the lenses might become unusable before the body does...

As always, horses for courses.

[Guest]

Hello Dennis, I wish I could have a better answer for you but I am sorry to have to say that in my experience the digital Leica M will not take the "punishment" that you seemingly deal out to your Nikon D5. I am personally totally committed to the Leica M, it's by far my favourite camera system in terms of handling and results, but certainly in my case I can't say that it's reliable platform. I presently have five Leica M bodies, MM1, 2x M10-P, M10-M and a M10-D, four of them have had to be returned to Leica for repair at least one time, the M10-D is at Wetzlar now in fact. Other M's, since sold, have been a M8, two M9's and two M240's, of those one 240 and both M9's had to be returned for warranty work.......On the other hand I have also used most versions of Nikon SLR/DSLR professionally since the 60's and they are utterly reliable camera bodies. I still have three Nikon FTN bodies from around the late sixties that have never been serviced apart from an occasional CLA after working in some dirty conditions and they still function perfectly, ( apart from the LTM's prism's metering that was always dodgy anyway ). Leica M film cameras I also used for work too during the same periods of time and they prove to be pretty reliable as well, particularly the MP's, but the digital M's not so much. Like what used to be said of Jaguars, beautiful cars but you should own two of them to ensure that you could take a drive whenever you needed to..........I wish I could say different because Leica M's are wonderful photographic tools, but I'd always have another body to hand as a backup if your usage is professional and reliability is important.

. 

[M11 for me]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb petermullett:

Hello Dennis, I wish I could have a better answer for you but I am sorry to have to say that in my experience the digital Leica M will not take the "punishment" that you seemingly deal out to your Nikon D5. I am personally totally committed to the Leica M, it's by far my favourite camera system in terms of handling and results, but certainly in my case I can't say that it's reliable platform. I presently have five Leica M bodies, MM1, 2x M10-P, M10-M and a M10-D, four of them have had to be returned to Leica for repair at least one time, the M10-D is at Wetzlar now in fact. Other M's, since sold, have been a M8, two M9's and two M240's, of those one 240 and both M9's had to be returned for warranty work.......On the other hand I have also used most versions of Nikon SLR/DSLR professionally since the 60's and they are utterly reliable camera bodies. I still have three Nikon FTN bodies from around the late sixties that have never been serviced apart from an occasional CLA after working in some dirty conditions and they still function perfectly, ( apart from the LTM's prism's metering that was always dodgy anyway ). Leica M film cameras I also used for work too during the same periods of time and they prove to be pretty reliable as well, particularly the MP's, but the digital M's not so much. Like what used to be said of Jaguars, beautiful cars but you should own two of them to ensure that you could take a drive whenever you needed to..........I wish I could say different because Leica M's are wonderful photographic tools, but I'd always have another body to hand as a backup if your usage is professional and reliability is important.

. 

That is very well said. Me too I love my M10 equipment. But thinking to do commissioned assignments while knowing that I have even no redundancy in my memory cards? This is clearly a risk as it is wrong to think that memory cards never fail.

In the beginning when I got my M10 I tried to have that camera as a second camera hanging at my shoulders for my assignments. But finally for me M camera is not the solution. Even though I know that there are many photographers seeing it differently. But to be frank: I see all the time that there are then SL cameras behind the photographs and not M. . .

[Rupert Greenwell]

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My M10P was hit by two shotgun pellets at quite close range whilst it was  being carried across my chest.Afterwards  the camera was still functioning and the rangefinder seemed to be okay but as it had two pellets in it just below the lens release button I took it {after coming out of hospital) to a local Leica repairer in the UK. One pellet had just penetrated the leather covering and had probably been slowed down by thick undergrowth. The second pellet was so flattened that it was crescent shaped and had hit the magnesium shell of the camera at probably full velocity. The pellets were extracted and the leather covering glued back so well it is hard to see any mark, just a small dimple in the leather. The rangefinder was checked and was found to be fine. I am still recovering having been shot in the head including a pellet that ended up in the back of my eyeball, I am told that I escaped being killed by a whisker never mind losing a eye. The pellet that the camera stopped would have gone through my clothing and entered my body just below my ribcage. The M10 P is still functioning and hopefully will for a long time. Tough cameras !

[SmokeSolid]

M system makes you holster the machine gun and pull out the sniper rifle. 

 

[SmokeSolid]

14 minutes ago, Rupert Greenwell said:

My M10P was hit by two shotgun pellets at quite close range whilst it was  being carried across my chest.Afterwards  the camera was still functioning and the rangefinder seemed to be okay but as it had two pellets in it just below the lens release button I took it {after coming out of hospital) to a local Leica repairer in the UK. One pellet had just penetrated the leather covering and had probably been slowed down by thick undergrowth. The second pellet was so flattened that it was crescent shaped and had hit the magnesium shell of the camera at probably full velocity. The pellets were extracted and the leather covering glued back so well it is hard to see any mark, just a small dimple in the leather. The rangefinder was checked and was found to be fine. I am still recovering having been shot in the head including a pellet that ended up in the back of my eyeball, I am told that I escaped being killed by a whisker never mind losing a eye. The pellet that the camera stopped would have gone through my clothing and entered my body just below my ribcage. The M10 P is still functioning and hopefully will for a long time. Tough cameras !

You are tougher than the M10P good to hear your alive. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by SmokeSolid
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[tom.w.bn]

Do you use 2 storage cards in your main camera for backup? Is one card slot an issue? M cameras are not good at bad weather. In pouring rain the viewfinder of the M9 was fogging up (while camera was "safely" stored in the bag). My DSLR worked fine in the rain.

[onasj]

From a functional point of view, I think you could get by with an M10 for intense professional use (assuming you didn't need autofocus), provided that having to occasionally remove the battery to resolve rare freezes, and potential breaks for overheating if using live view for extended periods on a warm day, were not dealbreakers for you.  While I would say that my Nikon DX/XXX DSLRs and Sony a7XXX mirrorless cameras are overall more reliable, the M10 is more reliable in my experience than some other pro cameras, including the Phase One XF+IQ4 ($50,000).  But I suspect the weather resistance of current-generation Nikon and Sony bodies is more robust than that of the M10.  Then again, Thorsten Overgaard seems to subject his Leica M gear to plenty of environmental abuse, so perhaps I'm just more reluctant to put such a pricey (and beautiful) camera in harm's way.

 

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, Dennis said:

Why am I asking? For my work, I shoot with a Nikon D5, which is literally a beast. 

 

 

Well, the M10 doesn’t bite or require feeding and taming. 

Misuse of the word ‘literally’ drives me figuratively insane.  😉

Always good to have a backup body, regardless of system, if shooting professionally and/or extreme use/conditions...IMO.

Jeff

[W124]

Two weeks ago I shot a wedding, 850 frames during the day, using the rangefinder and visoflex 020, 1 1/2 accus needed. We had sunshine and rain, without any problems.

Edited May 31, 2020 by W124

[M11 for me]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb W124:

Two weeks ago I shot a wedding, 850 frames during the day, using the rangefinder and visoflex 020, 1 1/2 accus needed. We had sunshine and rain, without any problems.

Impressing. But what would have happened if your memory card would have failed?

[W124]

I always have a second card in my bag. Easy!

[TomB_tx]

30 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

Impressing. But what would have happened if your memory card would have failed?

I've never had a card fail - but did once leave one in my hotel room, along with my kit with the spares...

[Dennis]

9 hours ago, Ecar said:

Are you going to use your M10 with LV/EVF always (or frequently) on?

No, just OVF and occasionally the LV

7 hours ago, arno_nyhm said:

while the DSLR allows you to see the exact frame you take,while blindung you in the moment you take the picture,  the rangefinder only gives you a vague idea of the future frame you might be taking but therefore leaves you right in the moment. so if the decisive moment matters, the rangefinder might make burstrate obsolete.

They are complete different worlds about exact composition, I know. At the beginning (first weeks) to be honest with you, I was kind of frustrated for this reason. But I embrace it now and it's not a big deal anymore. I can tell stories with a RF and do it well, even I don't have the perfect composition.

6 hours ago, Ecar said:

One example: lack of full weather sealing. Would you take your M10 out to shoot for a couple of hours under pouring rain? Not sure this is a good example though, as the lenses might become unusable before the body does..

That's correct. I know about the lenses... The rain will stop maybe to shoot, but I can live with this.

6 hours ago, petermullett said:

I wish I could say different because Leica M's are wonderful photographic tools, but I'd always have another body to hand as a backup if your usage is professional and reliability is important.

Sorry to hear your bad experiences with some M bodies. I don't need to push always the limits, I just want to know where the limits are. And as you are saying, I would need of course another back up camera. Can this be another M body? 🤔

 

[Dennis]

5 hours ago, M10 for me said:

But thinking to do commissioned assignments while knowing that I have even no redundancy in my memory cards? This is clearly a risk as it is wrong to think that memory cards never fail.

The million dollar question, right? on my D5 I use to shoot raw's in both CF cards, high capacity such as 128gb. And I never worried about nothing, never had issues. This is sure a big advantage with no risks

4 hours ago, Rupert Greenwell said:

My M10P was hit by two shotgun pellets at quite close range whilst it was  being carried across my chest

OMG! This is so bad, sorry to hear that. It's a miracle you survived. Happy you can answer to my post 🙌

4 hours ago, Rupert Greenwell said:

The M10 P is still functioning and hopefully will for a long time. Tough cameras !

That's AWESOME!

4 hours ago, tom.w.bn said:

Do you use 2 storage cards in your main camera for backup? Is one card slot an issue?

Answer above in the first line. If I decide to use my M10 for work, I need to change my workflow. Different kind of cards, small capacity, and other mobile device for back up. I can't just shoot all day with a 256gb card and hope everything will be fine. DO you know what I mean?

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

IMHO you can not compare the M10 to a pro DSLR that's built like a tank. It is much more fragile.

I know, I can imagine that. But your camera worked fine in harsh condition in Hawaii and Asia, which is awesome. It's not bad at all.

 

[Herr Barnack]

Quote

...I would like to ask if you never pushed the M10 (or any M digital) to its limits. I mean shooting thousands of frames in one long assignment/event, or in severe conditions. Did you ever experience any sensor/battery/camera overheating? Any issues? ...

Shooting thousands of frames of one event is what any serious (non-hobbyist) camera is built for.  Digital M cameras are certainly capable of that.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Herr Barnack

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[Dennis]

2 hours ago, onasj said:

From a functional point of view, I think you could get by with an M10 for intense professional use (assuming you didn't need autofocus)

+1 for Leica, oh yeah! No need AF, I'm getting used to the manual focus of the RF ... It's about practice and practice. I own Leica since 2018, but I'm a Pro so I usally win my gear/challenge fights 😃

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Misuse of the word ‘literally’ drives me figuratively insane.

Sorry about that, I struggle sometimes to find the appropriate words in english. But you got my point, right?

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Always good to have a backup body

Of course. It's mandatory for me. Let's say I have an M10 and an M0-P. Can Leica become my main brand gear? 🤔

2 hours ago, W124 said:

Two weeks ago I shot a wedding, 850 frames during the day

Hot it was shooting a wedding with Leica? Share your experience. When I shoot a wedding, for my work, I'm talking about 3500-5000 frame for all day coverage. Many many moments happening around, I can't resist w/o to shoot 🙂 And I work in S, no drive mode.