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Upgrade M9 sensor OR (save up) and trade in for M10/M10P?


richardvanle

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In 2011, I bought a new M9. It developed a crack sensor after a year and had it replaced by Leica. I used it professionally for a number of years but basically its been unused in storage for the past four years for various reasons (including switching to Canons for work). My main camera for fun is my M6 (which I will never ever get rid of).

I recently decided to get the M9 out and use it. Of course, it's got a corroded sensor! I've been researching my choices and they are (A) pay $1600 to replace the sensor or (B) trade it in and get an M10P for $6000 or M10 for $5200.

Choice A can happen immediately, but choice B means saving up for a year (no instant gratification unfortunately unless I have a good summer billing-wise). It is worth it in 2020 to spend $1600 on ten year old tech? I can't take a business write-off anymore on it, so it's a pretty hefty chunk of change for a hobby. I'd be interesting in hearing others thoughts. 

Currently I'm leaning toward saving up for an M10P/M10. Thanks.

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I was lucky and had my M9 sensor replaced under their free program when the camera was 7 years old and had just started corroding. I did buy an M10, but kept the M9 as a 2nd body (and backup, considering Leica repair times).

I do use the M10 most of the time, but the M9 images are too appealing for me to let it go.

$1600 is a lot, but the camera would be like new, and still have all its virtues.

Edited by TomB_tx
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Admittedly, I am completely out of the loop on Leica's digital offerings. After I switched to Canons for my digital work, I stopped following Leica's progress digitally. So it seems like several people feel the M9 sensor is still worth keeping. That's extremely helpful to know (especially since I know how exacting Leica users are!). My leaning toward an M10/M10P is partly driven by low-light capabilities and new features. But I'm curious what features people like about the M9 sensor and why it still holds up?

But to answer Daniel, yes, there's is an trade-in program where I can turn in my M9 with corroded sensor and get a good chunk of money off a newer model. I just talked with the Leica Miami store the other day to confirm this is still on. 

Edited by richardvanle
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I don’t think Leica is offering that great of a deal. You could do better buying one second-hand or new from a non-Leica Store dealer. 

If I were in your shoes, I’d sell the M9 for parts and either get an M9P with a new sensor or an M10P. Everyone waxes poetic about the colors from the M9 but you’ve got to bear in mind that the top clean ISO is likely to be no higher than 640. ISO 400, in reality. If you can live with this limitation, go for it. However, the M10P is what a digital M should have been from the start. This is coming from someone who’s shot with an M9M since 2014. 

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2 hours ago, richardvanle said:

My leaning toward an M10/M10P is partly driven by low-light capabilities

It really depends how much low-light capabilities you really need. If you really need to go mega high then there is no question, get the M10. If not then have a good look at photographs taken from each.

I'm not a great user of high ISO, and in reality I often question the actual need to go very high. I have used my M9 at 800 without any issues at all. Higher than that there is even a pleasant "grain" which I like. I don't think I've use 2500 (IIRC that's the M9s limit) but again, turning night into day is not my thing.

The major difference is of course the sensor technology... chalk and cheese! Other advantages are the screen (on the M9 it is really quite dreadful) and the much quieter shutter. Cosmetically, and is is of course purely subjective, I think the M9 is so much nicer looking that the M10 (and other Ms).

 

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51 minutes ago, ianman said:

It really depends how much low-light capabilities you really need. If you really need to go mega high then there is no question, get the M10. If not then have a good look at photographs taken from each.

I'm not a great user of high ISO, and in reality I often question the actual need to go very high. I have used my M9 at 800 without any issues at all. Higher than that there is even a pleasant "grain" which I like. I don't think I've use 2500 (IIRC that's the M9s limit) but again, turning night into day is not my thing.

The major difference is of course the sensor technology... chalk and cheese! Other advantages are the screen (on the M9 it is really quite dreadful) and the much quieter shutter. Cosmetically, and is is of course purely subjective, I think the M9 is so much nicer looking that the M10 (and other Ms).

 

+1 on this. As for the dreadful screen I tend not to use it most of the time, today I went for a walk and took an M9 with 35mm Summicron, I took 26 shots with it, never looked at the screen once I have it turned off (press to display).

Here's a shot from the walk, Lightroom sharpened as per Thorsten Overgard's preset in Lightroom resized in Photoshop for upload, very little other PP.

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Didn't see the shot until I loaded it into Lightroom.

I'm happy with my M9s.

Edited by Topsy
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Whatever you decide about getting an M10 or not, the M9 is only worth at least 1600 LESS than it would be with a new sensor. Who wants the hassle of sending a camera for repair when you can buy a good one instead. So, get it repaired and then either keep or sell it.

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personally, I would get the sensor replacement–it will get you a new sensor and CLA. If you don't like the camera, you could always resell it for $2,000 USD minimum if you have the boxes, papers and OEM parts. The way I see it, you can sell the hardly used M9 for more money than what it is valued now (no one will touch a corroded sensor from a mile away). 

Edited by danieldouloslee
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The value of an M9 with sensor rot is roughly $1600 less than one with a good sensor. No margin for profit. Leica in Wetzlar are selling M9 a la carte and refurbished with a warranty for something around US$3000. Interesting color combinations.

This is who you can contact at Leica, if they're answering their emails during the Corona plague:

michel.razafimahefa@leica-camera.com

Edited by jaapv
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Definitely get the sensor replaced. If you like how it shoots, stay with it. I had my M9's sensor replaced a few years ago under the complimentary program, and the service centre replaced the sensor, cleaned the camera and recalibrated the rangefinder. The M9's images are unique amongst the other cameras in my kit, and I will keep it forever. I've handled the M10-P, and while it's a great camera with much better high ISO performance etc, I haven't seen images with that 'special sauce' of the M9. Perhaps I'm not skilled enough in post processing, but M10 images look like modern DSLR images, whereas M9 images look like something else.

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I also have and use Canon. This is why I see no reason to update my M-E 220 to M10 at this moment. If I wouldn't use it as OP I would also discover my M-E 220 sensor corroded too late. So, think about it. Why save for another Leica if you are most likely not going to use it?

I have seen used M10 for sale under 4200 USD price tag recently. Not abused cameras. Doesn't looks like C-19 related sales. Might be also sitting in storage cameras, with owners realized it is not worth to keep most expensive cameras and not using them.

 

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With its limited latitude, having to get things as “right” as possible in shot, the M9 is the closest thing to film and the funnest of fun cameras right now.  If you nail it, it needs limited pp compared to CMOS cameras and the file sizes aren’t bloated.  The colours, while not accurate, are unique and my favourite.
 

Horses for courses; I’m struggling with whether I want to sell my film Ms or my M9.  

I would seriously question an “upgrade” to an M10.  Your dslr pays the bills.  There are cheaper options that work well with Leica glass— my Z7 rocks with M glass as would a Kolari-modded Sony A7rii...

Furthermore, re usable high iso, google setting your M9 iso at 640 and under exposing if needed, and increasing levels in pp.  640 still has a high signal-to-noise ratio and can be pushed on the computer way higher than in-camera.  
 

This attached shot was underexposed at 640 and pushed.  The M9 is capable of more than people thought of it 11y(!) ago.  The glow is a pre-ASPH 35/1.4 at 1.4...

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Edited by drec
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Thanks for all the responses, folks. There's a lot to consider here. I'm going to sit on this for a bit and mull things over. Meantime, I'm going to take the M9 out and give it some exercise. I find if I keep it at 5.6 or lower, you don't see the corrosion. So for now, that's a workaround. 

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8 hours ago, richardvanle said:

Thanks for all the responses, folks. There's a lot to consider here. I'm going to sit on this for a bit and mull things over. Meantime, I'm going to take the M9 out and give it some exercise. I find if I keep it at 5.6 or lower, you don't see the corrosion. So for now, that's a workaround. 

All the more reason to shoot wide open! 😃 Just be aware that the corrosion will worsen over time, and you'll probably want to do something about it sooner or later. I saw a secondhand Monochrom that looked like it had smallpox. Didn't buy it, for obvious reasons.

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  • 1 month later...

I have an M9 camera, the sensor was corroded and was changed but now 4 years after changing the sensor this with corrosion again, simplememte will not invest in a camera in which the sensor does not have the slightest credibility and despite the problem continue the company abandoned its customers . I went back to shooting with my M7. The digital world of Leica is not worth it, has no durability, is not worth the investment, the analog cameras and their lenses were forever

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12 minutes ago, capelini61 said:

I have an M9 camera, the sensor was corroded and was changed but now 4 years after changing the sensor this with corrosion again, simplememte will not invest in a camera in which the sensor does not have the slightest credibility and despite the problem continue the company abandoned its customers . I went back to shooting with my M7. The digital world of Leica is not worth it, has no durability, is not worth the investment, the analog cameras and their lenses were forever

Yours was replaced with the same problematic sensor, before there was a permanent solution.  Since Leica offered users the new, non-corroding replacement, I haven’t read or heard about a single failure. Reputable dealers will not sell an M9 or M9 Monochrom without the new sensor and paperwork from Leica.
 

Jeff

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I'm not quite sure about the time frame - If I were the OP I would send the camera in for a clean and evaluation of the sensor - that will show soon enough whether it is dirt or corrosion.

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