ruskkyle Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share #21 Posted May 25, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said: When I first got the M8, its 1.5 factor made wide angles a problem, so I got a Zeiss 21/2.8 to use as a ~35 mm equivalent. I liked it and still have it. It should also be good on the CL. Fairly contrasty with clean shadows. Back then the digitals had insufficient dynamic range so some folks argued for "sunny day" lenses that would fill in the shadows a bit with a boost from flare. Now we just push on the shadow slider. The Zeiss has clean shadows and wasn't a sunny day lens. Thanks Scott, I have been looking at that and it looks like great value. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 Hi ruskkyle, Take a look here Compact wide angle M lens options. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
cp995 Posted May 25, 2020 Share #22 Posted May 25, 2020 vor 2 Stunden schrieb ruskkyle: Have a look at this article, should be right up your street: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/08/using-m-lenses-on-the-leica-cl-new-city-new-camera-familiar-glass/ Thanks for the Link, looks great! I didn't expect a worse result, as I know my SEM 21 very well. But: My testing yesterday with my small Sony APS-C camera showed, that for a small camera, the SEM is a bit on the heavy side (280g) I think I'll sell it and replace it with a Voitlander Skopar 3.5/21 (180g), which is a great lens too! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 25, 2020 Share #23 Posted May 25, 2020 4 hours ago, ruskkyle said: Anyone tried the 21 super Elmar M on APS-C? Sure i did. Edge to edge sharpness is easy to achieve at f/4 and on on the CL. Less so at full aperture but not by much (pic). No color shift at edges and corners anyway. (digital CL, 21/3.4 asph, f/3.4). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/309846-compact-wide-angle-m-lens-options/?do=findComment&comment=3980197'>More sharing options...
ruskkyle Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share #24 Posted May 25, 2020 1 hour ago, lct said: Sure i did. Edge to edge sharpness is easy to achieve at f/4 and on on the CL. Less so at full aperture but not by much (pic). No color shift at edges and corners anyway. (digital CL, 21/3.4 asph, f/3.4). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Well, to my eyes that looks pretty excellent wide open! Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted May 25, 2020 Share #25 Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) What’s the point of SEM 21 with the CL ? I’ve got it with my M. But I sell it when I switch to CL. Being equivalent to 32mm f/5.1 is not small, neither wide angle nor fast... Just buy faster, cheaper and smaller Elmarit-TL 2.8/18 (27mm f/4.2) or Summicron-TL 2.0/23 (35mm f/3.0) CL really needs native ultra wide angle lenses. Because APS-C sensor makes all full frame wide angle and ultra wide angle lenses near irrelevant. Edited May 25, 2020 by nicci78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojay Posted May 25, 2020 Share #26 Posted May 25, 2020 1 minute ago, nicci78 said: What’s the point of SEM 21 with the CL ? I’ve got it with my M. But I sell it when I switch to CL. Being equivalent to 32mm f/5.1 is not small, neither wide angle nor fast... Just buy faster, cheaper and smaller Elmarit-TL 2.8/18 (27mm f/4.2) or Summicron-TL 2.0/23 (35mm f/3.0) CL really needs native ultra wide angle lenses. Might help if you read the original post - op wants manual lens for zone focussing - how is he to do that with the 18/23TL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted May 25, 2020 Share #27 Posted May 25, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry you are out of luck. Go buy a used M. You will be better served. CL is not made for that due to lack of proper APS-C manual focus lenses. SEM 21 with any full frame M is a dream lens. But not with the CL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted May 25, 2020 Share #28 Posted May 25, 2020 Another possibility. For the kind of money asked for a SEM 21. Just buy a used Q and used it as a manual lens. It will be better in every possible way against SEM 21 + CL. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted May 25, 2020 Share #29 Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) The MTF charts on the 21 SEM show it as superior across the APS-C frame compared to the TL 18 and 23mm : does this hold in practice without micro-lenses? I does seem like quite an interesting option especially if you have a foot in both the M and CL/TL camps ... I'm tempted myself. I do recall the 21/4,5 ZM working very well on the Ricoh GXR-M with scale focus ; without any color shift, but can't remember if the GXR's built-in user corrections were applied. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited May 25, 2020 by FrozenInTime Added a couple of scale focus GXR-M with ZM 21/4,5 images from 2012 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/309846-compact-wide-angle-m-lens-options/?do=findComment&comment=3980298'>More sharing options...
lct Posted May 25, 2020 Share #30 Posted May 25, 2020 1 hour ago, nicci78 said: SEM 21 with any full frame M is a dream lens. But not with the CL. Different feeling and/or experience here. The M 21/3.4 asph is not my most used 21 on the CL, to be honest, because i prefer the smaller size of the CV 21/3.5 on this compact body, but it is certainly the better lens. I like much the M 21/2.8 asph too but it is significantly more bulky. Now i have no experience with the TL 18/2.8 but it is an AF lens i'm not interested in so i could not recommend more highly the M 21/3.4 asph to M lens users at least. YMMV. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp995 Posted May 25, 2020 Share #31 Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) vor einer Stunde schrieb lct: Different feeling and/or experience here. The M 21/3.4 asph is not my most used 21 on the CL, to be honest, because i prefer the smaller size of the CV 21/3.5 on this compact body... Exactly my thoughts! And the reason why I'm going to sell my SEM ... I own the Ultron f2 35mm VM for my M and my Z7 and it's really a great, small an lightweight lens, optically superior to any Summicron. The Skopar will match perfectly for my future CL, and the other bodies too ... Edited May 25, 2020 by cp995 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted May 25, 2020 Share #32 Posted May 25, 2020 Actually TL lenses when used with T/TL/TL2 will provide you a very nice digital distance and depth of field scale. Not available with CL though 😞 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted May 25, 2020 Share #33 Posted May 25, 2020 1 minute ago, nicci78 said: Actually TL lenses when used with T/TL/TL2 will provide you a very nice digital distance and depth of field scale. Not available with CL though 😞 Yes, the CL is really irritating when AF fails to lock and there is no clue which way or how far to turn the fly-by wire focus ring. The way I read this is that all TL lenses are calibrated for distance indication, so there is no reason why the CL UI should not be updated to indicate this. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 25, 2020 Share #34 Posted May 25, 2020 38 minutes ago, cp995 said: I own the Ultron f2 35mm VM for my M and my Z7 and it's really a great, small an lightweight lens, optically superior to any Summicron. The Skopar will match perfectly for my future CL, and the other bodies too ... I like much the CV 35/2, i use it preferably on the CL due to its small size, but its bokeh is more busy than that of both Summicron 35/2 v4 and 35/2 asph, at f/2 at least. As for 21mm lenses, the Skopar is a 21/4. Very good lens indeed, softer than the CV 21/3.5 at f/4 but with less CA than the latter. Works fine on the CL too but it has a lot of flare which will be less easy to adjust than CA in PP. Beware that the CV 21/4 produces color shifts on my M240 too so i wonder if it does the same on the Z7. I have no experience with the latter though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp995 Posted May 25, 2020 Share #35 Posted May 25, 2020 vor einer Stunde schrieb lct: ... As for 21mm lenses, the Skopar is a 21/4. Very good lens indeed, softer than the CV 21/3.5 at f/4 but with less CA than the latter... The Skopar f4 is, beside the size, not an alternative to my SEM 21, I owned the f4 years ago. If I switch, it will be the Skopar 21 f3.5; which I can use without any restrictions at my Nikon Z7 too. I don't fear its CAs as they are very easy to remove in post. Tried it with a DNG example ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted May 26, 2020 Share #36 Posted May 26, 2020 There was a flurry of posts about CV10/12/15 mm lenses a while back. All had good reports with impressive examples. All are manual, of course. And translate to 15/18/23 EFOV. Is there a need to search further? 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted May 26, 2020 Share #37 Posted May 26, 2020 I feel exactly that way with the CV 10mm f/5.6 ... It nets the field of view of a 15mm lens on my M and has superb image quality across the entire field of view. It is best to remember that you should use f/8 or f/11 with this lens ... f/5.6 shows some corner darkening, and diffraction intrudes quickly past f/11. But even with that limitation, it is a stunning lens. I've even tested it on the much larger Hasselblad CFVII 50c sensor (33x44mm) and it performs brilliantly there too, with an approximately 125° diagonal field of view (once cropped down past the vignetting caused by the stubby lens hood ... full frame it would be 140° but for the hood). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Hasselblad 907x + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6 Focus distance: ~5 feet Click on photo to see 3000 pixel wide (1/2 resolution) image On the CL, it provides super results with "only" 110° diagonal angle of view... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6 ISO 100 @ f/8 @ 1/80 G 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Hasselblad 907x + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6 Focus distance: ~5 feet Click on photo to see 3000 pixel wide (1/2 resolution) image On the CL, it provides super results with "only" 110° diagonal angle of view... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6 ISO 100 @ f/8 @ 1/80 G ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/309846-compact-wide-angle-m-lens-options/?do=findComment&comment=3981026'>More sharing options...
Boojay Posted May 26, 2020 Share #38 Posted May 26, 2020 44 minutes ago, ramarren said: I feel exactly that way with the CV 10mm f/5.6 ... It nets the field of view of a 15mm lens on my M and has superb image quality across the entire field of view. It is best to remember that you should use f/8 or f/11 with this lens ... f/5.6 shows some corner darkening, and diffraction intrudes quickly past f/11. But even with that limitation, it is a stunning lens. I've even tested it on the much larger Hasselblad CFVII 50c sensor (33x44mm) and it performs brilliantly there too, with an approximately 125° diagonal field of view (once cropped down past the vignetting caused by the stubby lens hood ... full frame it would be 140° but for the hood). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Hasselblad 907x + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6Focus distance: ~5 feet Click on photo to see 3000 pixel wide (1/2 resolution) image On the CL, it provides super results with "only" 110° diagonal angle of view... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6ISO 100 @ f/8 @ 1/80 G Always enjoy your shots with this lens! Have to say though - you must have extremely big feet🤣! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted May 26, 2020 Share #39 Posted May 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Boojay said: Always enjoy your shots with this lens! Have to say though - you must have extremely big feet🤣! LOL! You made me think I might have written the focus distance incorrectly so I measured. Foreshortening makes the wood slats in the floor look much wider in the foreground than they are ... They're regularly 8" wide. My bicycle is parked in exactly the same spot, so measured back to where I'd could see the same things with the camera and lens on a tripod: It's within an inch or so of 5 feet from camera to the focused plane. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojay Posted May 26, 2020 Share #40 Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ramarren said: LOL! You made me think I might have written the focus distance incorrectly so I measured. Foreshortening makes the wood slats in the floor look much wider in the foreground than they are ... They're regularly 8" wide. My bicycle is parked in exactly the same spot, so measured back to where I'd could see the same things with the camera and lens on a tripod: It's within an inch or so of 5 feet from camera to the focused plane. I did realise, you didn't get anything wrong. As someone who is completely lost with anything wider than around 24mm FF, I love to see what you and others - Dippy for example, (where is she just now - hope she's ok? ), do with these wide angle lenses. Edited May 26, 2020 by Boojay Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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