Darken region across the roll

[fatihayoglu]

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Hi all,

I have recently developed 2 rolls of TriX at home in Paterson 2 reel tank with stainless steel rolls (1st time) if that matters at all. One of the rolls have a darken area across the whole roll. By now I have developed 8 rolls and this is the first time it happens. First I thought a light leak, but that would be a lighten area. Then I have thought about not having enough developer in the tank but I am quite certain I have used 500ml solution in total which is recommended according Paterson website. Sadly I don't remember how this roll was placed in the tank, whether up or down.

 

(Now I am thinking, maybe the tank requires 500ml solution with Paterson reels but with stainless steel, it might be different.)

I have attached a copy of one of the pictures and looking for your feedback and thought on why this would happen.

 

Many thanks,

Fatih

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Edited May 20, 2020 by fatihayoglu

[stray cat]

That’s very unfortunate, Fatih. On my Patterson tanks it specifies 290ml per roll for 35mm - I round that up to 600ml for two rolls. I think That may be where your problem lies - you were 80-100ml short. That’s a nice photo anyway, though.

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[Siriusone59]

I think you're on the right track with the difference in displacement between Paterson and stainless reels.  Maybe put the reels in tank and measure the amount of water needed to cover, see how it compares with the 500ml.

[fatihayoglu]

7 minutes ago, stray cat said:

That’s very unfortunate, Fatih. On my Patterson tanks it specifies 290ml per roll for 35mm - I round that up to 600ml for two rolls. I think That may be where your problem lies - you were 80-100ml short. That’s a nice photo anyway, though.

That what I haven't understood clearly as well, Paterson says 300ml for single reel, 500 for double reel. But I guess going 600ml won't kill me.

Also this haven't happened to me before with my 6 other rolls and I have always used 500ml solution. So I am guessing, this is due to smaller volume of steel reels.

Edited May 20, 2020 by fatihayoglu

[fatihayoglu]

7 minutes ago, Siriusone59 said:

I think you're on the right track with the difference in displacement between Paterson and stainless reels.  Maybe put the reels in tank and measure the amount of water needed to cover, see how it compares with the 500ml.

That's what I'll do.

[fatihayoglu]

Alright, just did the measurement, 500ml is not enough, 600ml is good. So lesson learnt I guess

Edited May 20, 2020 by fatihayoglu

[jankap]

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vor 44 Minuten schrieb fatihayoglu:

First I thought a light leak, but that would be a lighten area.

A light leak would darken the film.

[fatihayoglu]

6 minutes ago, jankap said:

A light leak would darken the film.

I meant when you developed it.

[adan]

57 minutes ago, fatihayoglu said:

I meant when you developed it.

Doesn't matter. A light leak will turn the film negative dark, and that will appear as bright or washed-out in a positive (scan or print).

[fatihayoglu]

34 minutes ago, adan said:

Doesn't matter. A light leak will turn the film negative dark, and that will appear as bright or washed-out in a positive (scan or print).

OK so this is what I have said, on a negative; a light leak will show as dark, on a developed film, it will show as light.

[250swb]

2 hours ago, fatihayoglu said:

That what I haven't understood clearly as well, Paterson says 300ml for single reel, 500 for double reel. But I guess going 600ml won't kill me.

Also this haven't happened to me before with my 6 other rolls and I have always used 500ml solution. So I am guessing, this is due to smaller volume of steel reels.

No, Paterson says 500ml for a medium format film (120), not two 35mm films. You have been misinterpreting the instructions.

Edited May 20, 2020 by 250swb

[fatihayoglu]

2 hours ago, 250swb said:

No, Paterson says 500ml for a medium format film (120), not two 35mm films. You have been misinterpreting the instructions.

Actually you are wrong. Please see https://www.patersonphotographic.com/product/paterson-super-system-4-developing-tanks/

Quote

n processing 300 ml of solution is required for a single 35mm film or 500m1 for two 35mm and one 120 roll film.

And as I've said, I have developed 6 rolls before with plastic reels and never had any problem during development phase. 

[250swb]

1 hour ago, fatihayoglu said:

Actually you are wrong. Please see https://www.patersonphotographic.com/product/paterson-super-system-4-developing-tanks/

And as I've said, I have developed 6 rolls before with plastic reels and never had any problem during development phase. 

It's a confusing typo, and to be honest if you are being so mean as to not just round up the numbers so two 35mm films need 600ml of developer then you are forever going to be dithering on the edge of success or failure. Look underneath your tank, it tells you the guidelines, but they are only guidelines. Under the base of the tank it says 290ml per 35mm film (NOT 500ml for two) so don't tell me I'm wrong if I'm much closer to the real amount than you. If for example you use a developer that froths during agitation you definitely want more developer solution in the tank so the true miniscus remains below the bubbles. And if you are using alternative reels in a Paterson tank you have to consider two other things, the first would be how securely the new reels grip on the column, and secondly if they need more or less developer in the tank. You can determine both of these just by putting water into your tank and jiggling it about and then having a look to see if each reel is covered and if anything has moved.

Edited May 20, 2020 by 250swb

[Siriusone59]

5 hours ago, fatihayoglu said:

Alright, just did the measurement, 500ml is not enough, 600ml is good. So lesson learnt I guess

Glad to hear that you got it sorted.  Might could even get by with less than 600ml if you measure again with loaded reels, provided you have some strips that you don't mind getting wet.🤔

[fatihayoglu]

20 minutes ago, Siriusone59 said:

Glad to hear that you got it sorted.  Might could even get by with less than 600ml if you measure again with loaded reels, provided you have some strips that you don't mind getting wet.🤔

Probably I would but I don’t have some strips so until then I’ll stick 600 not to risk it

[fatihayoglu]

32 minutes ago, 250swb said:

It's a confusing typo, and to be honest if you are being so mean as to not just round up the numbers so two 35mm films need 600ml of developer then you are forever going to be dithering on the edge of success or failure. Look underneath your tank, it tells you the guidelines, but they are only guidelines. Under the base of the tank it says 290ml per 35mm film (NOT 500ml for two) so don't tell me I'm wrong if I'm much closer to the real amount than you. If for example you use a developer that froths during agitation you definitely want more developer solution in the tank so the true miniscus remains below the bubbles. And if you are using alternative reels in a Paterson tank you have to consider two other things, the first would be how securely the new reels grip on the column, and secondly if they need more or less developer in the tank. You can determine both of these just by putting water into your tank and jiggling it about and then having a look to see if each reel is covered and if anything has moved.

first of all, if I came across wrong, I’m sorry for that but you’ve accused me with misinterpretation and I merely showed you the link where I get my information. Also giving the fact that I have developed 6 other rolls with plastic reels and 500ml developer, and haven’t had any issue with any of the pictures. So I thought I’m doing right. The only things which I have changed between the last time I’ve developed the rolls and this time is the steel reels.

I have specifically purchased the ones for Paterson so they are tight with the centre column however I haven’t thought about their actual volumes, hence the requirement for more developer I think.
 

I am also not tight with any chemicals believe me if it would say 600, I’d use 600

Edited May 20, 2020 by fatihayoglu

[250swb]

You got your link suggesting 500ml for two 35mm rolls from the sales site and not from the bottom of the tank and not the .pdf. The whole principle of film processing is to check, check, and then check again, and while you are at it take nothing for granted. If you are having problems people can short cut you to the answer, check, check and check again, but often there is some truth in what they say.

[fatihayoglu]

They have tricked me!

btw I’ve just measured and 500ml covers just about it, I believe that’s why I was ok till now. But as I’ve said, lesson learnt!

[giannis]

On 5/20/2020 at 2:25 PM, fatihayoglu said:

Hi all,

I have recently developed 2 rolls of TriX at home in Paterson 2 reel tank with stainless steel rolls (1st time) if that matters at all. One of the rolls have a darken area across the whole roll. By now I have developed 8 rolls and this is the first time it happens. First I thought a light leak, but that would be a lighten area. Then I have thought about not having enough developer in the tank but I am quite certain I have used 500ml solution in total which is recommended according Paterson website. Sadly I don't remember how this roll was placed in the tank, whether up or down.

 

(Now I am thinking, maybe the tank requires 500ml solution with Paterson reels but with stainless steel, it might be different.)

I have attached a copy of one of the pictures and looking for your feedback and thought on why this would happen.

 

Many thanks,

Fatih

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I've found that 550ml just barely covers 2 rolls in a 2-reel paterson tank. With 500ml you're just a couple mm short of covering the upper roll, which is consistent with what I see in your pictures.

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[fatihayoglu]

5 minutes ago, giannis said:

I've found that 550ml just barely covers 2 rolls in a 2-reel paterson tank. With 500ml you're just a couple mm short of covering the upper roll, which is consistent with what I see in your pictures.

Hi,

these were with steel reels and as expected 500 wasn’t enough and creating this problem.

on my previous results, which is not extensive but 6 rolls only, I haven’t had any problem with 500ml, maybe I was lucky as film has a volume and that was enough to increase to solution up to the top of the reels. But as others pointed out and based on my findings as well, from now on 600ml it is that I’ll use with steel reels.