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FOTOS App 2.1 released (Geotagging)


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8 hours ago, PhotoCruiser said:

do you get the coordinates?

In any case you need to switch on Geotaggin in Leica Photo 2.1.0 menu
connect to the camera
once camer is connected press shutter button and answer yes to stop WiFi connection
you should get time/date synch from phone to Q2 every time you wake up / switch on the Q2 and have the coordinattes saved with the photos

After a wake up or switch on you need to wait aprox 30 sec/1 min till the satellite icon becomes highlited, if its dull greay cou have NO connection.

It seems that IOS is making much more problems than Android.

Chris
 

Does the camera or iOS phone prompts you that the time and date is synced?

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Am 18.5.2020 um 07:54 schrieb PhotoCruiser:

I made even more test to verify the sllep mode and switch off mode inconsitency and the result is good:

I left the camera the whole afternoon in sleep mode and randomly took a photo
if i took the camera and took a photo immediately --> no geotagging
if i waited till the Satellite Sysmbol bif i took the camera and took a photo immediately --> no geotagging
if i waited till the Satellite Sysmbol became bright and took a photo --> geotagging is recordedecame bright and took a photo --> geotagging is recorded
ramdomly i got a message on the cellphone screen that the Q2 dime and date was updated

When i came back home i switched the camera off to see what will happen

after one hour camera switched off and the on again, same as above
if i took the camera and took a photo immediately --> no geotagging
if i waited till the Satellite Sysmbol became bright and took a photo --> geotagging is recorded

after one hour camera switched off and the on again, same as above
if i took the camera and took a photo immediately --> no geotagging
if i waited till the Satellite Sysmbol became bright and took a photo --> geotagging is recorded

Conclusion
Under Android and Blutooth always on it seems that geotagging works as promised under the conditions that:

1° the Leica Fotos App is started, the camera connected and the Leica Symbol is in the status line on top of the screen
2° before you take a photo you must wait till the satellite symbol is lit, if no connection satellite symbol is still there but dull, that is confusing
3° the camera can be in sleep mode or switched off, as long the bluetooth connection is up after the waiting period geotagging will work

For who had intermittent geotagging or it does not work at all:
- check that geotagging is switched on in the Leica Fotos app
- check that the leica symbol is in the statusline and you may get a message that eica geotaaging is on
- check your bluetooth parameters, bluetooth must be always on, otherwise blutooth may switch off in your device and will disconnect the camera

Once more: the tests where made using Q2 and Galaxy S20 Android Phone
As i dont use Apple Products i cannot test under IOS OS
Using another abdroid or IOS device it may not work as described
using different settings for buetooth (particularly energy saving settings who switch of bluetooth) it may not work as described

Chris

I have made during 3 days more or less the same sequence of tests. Never got a single geotag. Leica SL2, iPhone 11 and iPad Pro.

 

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8 hours ago, SrMi said:

While I had issues with iOS, I had a very successful geotagging test with Android (Pixel 4XL). If you have any issues, make sure that FOTOS app is marked as "not optimized" in the Battery Optimization setting. This prevents the app from being inactive and missing GPS data sync.

That sounded interesting, so I checked on my Moto G7 with Android 9.  Looking at the app characteristis in Settings I find battery not optimized, app can use battery in background, but then it records that app has been active for only 1 min while in background.  Hmmm.  There must be phone-specific tricks for keeping the app active while it is sitting in my pocket

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Also, I find it is hard to use more than one phone with a single camera, alternating between two android phones for testing, or switching between iOS and Android phones.  It seems as soon as I get things running on one phone it stops receiving or connecting with the other.  This is most annoying when I'm not just testing but using an android phone when I go about and an iPad to look at pictures when at home.  Are others having this problem?

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Just to add some observations from my testing today with my Q2 and SL2. I started with the Q2 and on my iPhone iOS had updated the app to 2.1 automatically, however, I couldn't see any date and time or GPS settings. I therefore could never get a GPS connection even though the icons appeared on my Q2, the solution was to delete FOTOS and reinstall. This time it offered to sync the date and time as part of the initial instal as well as selecting GPS, I had to pair it again with my camera's but it's now working and geotagging shots.

As part of the iOS install it also asks if you want to keep location services running in background even when not using the app, I've selected this so I'll do some more tests and let everyone know.

The final thing to check is that once your camera is shown in the app tap the 3 dots to the right of the camera (Leica Q2 in my case in the above example) and set Geotagging to always.

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1 minute ago, SJH said:

Just to add some observations from my testing today with my Q2 and SL2. I started with the Q2 and on my iPhone iOS had updated the app to 2.1 automatically, however, I couldn't see any date and time or GPS settings. I therefore could never get a GPS connection even though the icons appeared on my Q2, the solution was to delete FOTOS and reinstall. This time it offered to sync the date and time as part of the initial instal as well as selecting GPS, I had to pair it again with my camera's but it's now working and geotagging shots.

As part of the iOS install it also asks if you want to keep location services running in background even when not using the app, I've selected this so I'll do some more tests and let everyone know.

The final thing to check is that once your camera is shown in the app tap the 3 dots to the right of the camera (Leica Q2 in my case in the above example) and set Geotagging to always.

Just one other thing you will then will see a white circle and what looks like a mobile in the middle next to your camera to the left.

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vor 7 Stunden schrieb marcolinger:

I have made during 3 days more or less the same sequence of tests. Never got a single geotag. Leica SL2, iPhone 11 and iPad Pro.

Then check with other SL2 users,
unfortunately i have "only" a Q2 and no IOS device , but under Android and the Q2 it works slow but fine.

Chris

Edited by PhotoCruiser
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So have tried it out on a walk round and the key aspects are as follows on iOS as far as I can see:

1.  Behaviour on a Q2 and SL2 is the same once you set the same settings per camera e.g. Geotagging to 'always'as per my previous post.

2. The app needs to be running but the iPhone can be locked or you can be using another app like iMessage.

3. An example might be that you have bluetooth switched on in the Q2/SL2 settings. You open the app at the start of your shoot, lets say's its a street session and then you'll see the GPS icon become active on the camera after about 3-5 seconds.

4. Off you go and your iPhone is now in your pocket and locked, the camera drops into standby. You prepare for your first shots and wake the camera and even with your iPhone locked and in your pocket the GPS icon becomes active within about 3 seconds or so. Your shots should now be geotagged throughout the session. If if you stop for a coffee and switch off the camera as long as the app is loaded on your phone (even if locked and in your pocket/bag) the camera connects and GPS is active when you switch it back on. I've just had a break and that's what I've experienced in the field right now.

Key dependencies as far as I can tell:

1. Set Geotagging to Always in the FOTOS app next to each camera listed (access via 3 white dots to the right of the camera name). 

2. An iPhone or iPad can be locked or the focus can be on another app but FOTOS does need to be running/loaded.

3. Your chances of success increase significantly by reinstalling FOTOS and then pairing each camera again.

When in the field and shooting as described above bluetooth seems to 'poll' the camera so the bluetooth icon isn't permanently lit all the time. I think this is to conserve power and so far the battery on my camera and phone don't seem to be significantly hit unless you do a wireless transfer of your shots. However, this might change on several hours of shooting and I've really only done a couple with everything running. Whilst it will never be super fast the transfer speed appears to be quicker than the previous version but difficult to quantify exactly as the JPEG's and DNG's clearly differ in size each time.

I think all Leica needs to do really is a short YouTube video as they did for example with the 'wake remotely function'. 

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My Q2 test results with Fotos v2.1 on an iPhone XS:

Preconditions:

1. Q2 (latest firmware) is paired with iPhone (latest iOS) -- I did not need to delete and reinstall the Leica FOTOS app
2. Q2 settings: Leica FOTOS:Bluetooth: ON, Leica FOTOS:Remote Activation: ON
3. Fotos settings: Geotagging: ALWAYS
4. iPhone settings: Privacy:LocationServices: ON, Privacy:Location Services:Leica FOTOS: ALWAYS
5. Leica FOTOS app launched but not necessarily active
6. iPhone asleep

Summary (tl;dr):
If the Q2 is powered off with the switch (hardware) or by power-saving (software), it loses geo-tagging until the iPhone is woken and unlocked. The Leica FOTOS app does not need to be in foreground, but must have been launched. If the Q2 only sleeps (LCD switches off), it regains geo-connection ~3 seconds after being woken without having to touch the iPhone.

Recommendations:
If you want to keep geo-connection active to an iPhone leave the Q2 power switch ON and disable power-saving. If you need to reconnect after a (hardware or software) power cycle, wake and unlock the iPhone and wait ~30 seconds.

Here are the tests...

Test_01 steps:
1. Q2 changed from powered off to on with switch
2. Wait long enough for Q2 to sleep (LCD switches off)

Test_01 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive while LCD is on

Test_02 steps:
1. Q2 changed from powered off to on with switch
2. iPhone woken from sleep and unlocked -- on my XS this involves picking it up and looking at the screen until the padlock releases

Test_02 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive until ~3 seconds after Step 2, at which point Bluetooth icon flickers and geo icon activates

Test_03 steps (Q2 remains powered on from Test_02, geo is active):
1. Q2 sleeps (LCD switches off)
2. Q2 woken by half-pressing shutter button

Test_03 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators visible and active

Test_04 steps (Q2 remains powered on from Test_03, geo is active):
1. Q2 sleeps  (LCD switches off)
2. Q2 enters power-saving mode (power off, switch in ON position)
3. Q2 woken by half-pressing shutter button

Test_04 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive while LCD is on

Test_05 steps (Q2 remains powered on from Test_04, geo is active):
1. Q2 sleeps  (LCD switches off)
2. Q2 enters power-saving mode (power off, switch in ON position)
3. Q2 woken by half-pressing shutter button
4. iPhone woken from sleep and unlocked

Test_05 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive until ~3 seconds after Step 4, at which point Bluetooth icon flickers and geo icon activates

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8 hours ago, Wireman said:

My Q2 test results with Fotos v2.1 on an iPhone XS:

Preconditions:

1. Q2 (latest firmware) is paired with iPhone (latest iOS) -- I did not need to delete and reinstall the Leica FOTOS app
2. Q2 settings: Leica FOTOS:Bluetooth: ON, Leica FOTOS:Remote Activation: ON
3. Fotos settings: Geotagging: ALWAYS
4. iPhone settings: Privacy:LocationServices: ON, Privacy:Location Services:Leica FOTOS: ALWAYS
5. Leica FOTOS app launched but not necessarily active
6. iPhone asleep

Summary (tl;dr):
If the Q2 is powered off with the switch (hardware) or by power-saving (software), it loses geo-tagging until the iPhone is woken and unlocked. The Leica FOTOS app does not need to be in foreground, but must have been launched. If the Q2 only sleeps (LCD switches off), it regains geo-connection ~3 seconds after being woken without having to touch the iPhone.

Recommendations:
If you want to keep geo-connection active to an iPhone leave the Q2 power switch ON and disable power-saving. If you need to reconnect after a (hardware or software) power cycle, wake and unlock the iPhone and wait ~30 seconds.

Here are the tests...

Test_01 steps:
1. Q2 changed from powered off to on with switch
2. Wait long enough for Q2 to sleep (LCD switches off)

Test_01 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive while LCD is on

Test_02 steps:
1. Q2 changed from powered off to on with switch
2. iPhone woken from sleep and unlocked -- on my XS this involves picking it up and looking at the screen until the padlock releases

Test_02 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive until ~3 seconds after Step 2, at which point Bluetooth icon flickers and geo icon activates

Test_03 steps (Q2 remains powered on from Test_02, geo is active):
1. Q2 sleeps (LCD switches off)
2. Q2 woken by half-pressing shutter button

Test_03 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators visible and active

Test_04 steps (Q2 remains powered on from Test_03, geo is active):
1. Q2 sleeps  (LCD switches off)
2. Q2 enters power-saving mode (power off, switch in ON position)
3. Q2 woken by half-pressing shutter button

Test_04 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive while LCD is on

Test_05 steps (Q2 remains powered on from Test_04, geo is active):
1. Q2 sleeps  (LCD switches off)
2. Q2 enters power-saving mode (power off, switch in ON position)
3. Q2 woken by half-pressing shutter button
4. iPhone woken from sleep and unlocked

Test_05 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive until ~3 seconds after Step 4, at which point Bluetooth icon flickers and geo icon activates

Leica Akademie should award you a B.FOTOS degree after this. Can they not make a consumer friendly system?

William

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10 hours ago, Wireman said:

My Q2 test results with Fotos v2.1 on an iPhone XS:

Preconditions:

1. Q2 (latest firmware) is paired with iPhone (latest iOS) -- I did not need to delete and reinstall the Leica FOTOS app
2. Q2 settings: Leica FOTOS:Bluetooth: ON, Leica FOTOS:Remote Activation: ON
3. Fotos settings: Geotagging: ALWAYS
4. iPhone settings: Privacy:LocationServices: ON, Privacy:Location Services:Leica FOTOS: ALWAYS
5. Leica FOTOS app launched but not necessarily active
6. iPhone asleep

Summary (tl;dr):
If the Q2 is powered off with the switch (hardware) or by power-saving (software), it loses geo-tagging until the iPhone is woken and unlocked. The Leica FOTOS app does not need to be in foreground, but must have been launched. If the Q2 only sleeps (LCD switches off), it regains geo-connection ~3 seconds after being woken without having to touch the iPhone.

Recommendations:
If you want to keep geo-connection active to an iPhone leave the Q2 power switch ON and disable power-saving. If you need to reconnect after a (hardware or software) power cycle, wake and unlock the iPhone and wait ~30 seconds.

Here are the tests...

Test_01 steps:
1. Q2 changed from powered off to on with switch
2. Wait long enough for Q2 to sleep (LCD switches off)

Test_01 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive while LCD is on

Test_02 steps:
1. Q2 changed from powered off to on with switch
2. iPhone woken from sleep and unlocked -- on my XS this involves picking it up and looking at the screen until the padlock releases

Test_02 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive until ~3 seconds after Step 2, at which point Bluetooth icon flickers and geo icon activates

Test_03 steps (Q2 remains powered on from Test_02, geo is active):
1. Q2 sleeps (LCD switches off)
2. Q2 woken by half-pressing shutter button

Test_03 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators visible and active

Test_04 steps (Q2 remains powered on from Test_03, geo is active):
1. Q2 sleeps  (LCD switches off)
2. Q2 enters power-saving mode (power off, switch in ON position)
3. Q2 woken by half-pressing shutter button

Test_04 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive while LCD is on

Test_05 steps (Q2 remains powered on from Test_04, geo is active):
1. Q2 sleeps  (LCD switches off)
2. Q2 enters power-saving mode (power off, switch in ON position)
3. Q2 woken by half-pressing shutter button
4. iPhone woken from sleep and unlocked

Test_05 result:
Q2 Bluetooth and geo indicators appear and remain visible but inactive until ~3 seconds after Step 4, at which point Bluetooth icon flickers and geo icon activates

 

2 hours ago, willeica said:

Leica Akademie should award you a B.FOTOS degree after this. Can they not make a consumer friendly system?

William

That's a good report.  To make this stuff work we need to know when switch OFF is different from power-saving timer OFF (on the camera they seem to be the same,) .

I haven't checked to see whether BT awakening needs to be on.  It is expensive and will drain your battery in a day or two (on the SL2) if left on.

And we beta testers are probably helping Leica to figure out what to tell our phones and where to find the things that they have to be told.

Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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1 hour ago, willeica said:

Can they not make a consumer friendly system?

I'm prepared to cut them some slack, here. It's notoriously difficult to engineer a protocol that has to interface with a wide (and growing) range of devices. I have little experience with Android, but I know that Apple are fairly (and admirably, imho) picky about what they will let third-party peripherals do to a locked iPhone.

My (partially informed) guess is that when the Q2 is asleep (LCD/EVF off) it periodically checks in with the iPhone which - even if locked - is happy to keep the connection persistent. 

However, if the Q2 is powered off (hard or soft), I suspect it stops checking in. A locked iPhone will give the paired Q2 a short "grace period", but when it doesn't get an "I'm still here" from the camera, it "drops the line" and won't reconnect until the phone is deliberately unlocked by user authentication (face, fingerprint, passcode).

This is a security feature baked into the phone by Apple and prevents potentially nefarious actors from accessing it without your knowledge. The restriction cannot be over-ridden by third-party developers (even Leica).

The solution (as far as my tests show) is to:
a) leave the camera on during a shoot; and
b) disable power-saving.

I already do a). Only time will tell if b) causes battery pain. If it does, then I just have to get used to unlocking my phone if I want reliable geotagging.

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1 minute ago, Wireman said:

I'm prepared to cut them some slack, here. It's notoriously difficult to engineer a protocol that has to interface with a wide (and growing) range of devices. I have little experience with Android, but I know that Apple are fairly (and admirably, imho) picky about what they will let third-party peripherals do to a locked iPhone.

My (partially informed) guess is that when the Q2 is asleep (LCD/EVF off) it periodically checks in with the iPhone which - even if locked - is happy to keep the connection persistent. 

However, if the Q2 is powered off (hard or soft), I suspect it stops checking in. A locked iPhone will give the paired Q2 a short "grace period", but when it doesn't get an "I'm still here" from the camera, it "drops the line" and won't reconnect until the phone is deliberately unlocked by user authentication (face, fingerprint, passcode).

This is a security feature baked into the phone by Apple and prevents potentially nefarious actors from accessing it without your knowledge. The restriction cannot be over-ridden by third-party developers (even Leica).

The solution (as far as my tests show) is to:
a) leave the camera on during a shoot; and
b) disable power-saving.

I already do a). Only time will tell if b) causes battery pain. If it does, then I just have to get used to unlocking my phone if I want reliable geotagging.

You are emphasising my point even more. If you want to convert the smartphone people you have to make the use of an app+camera as easy to use as a smartphone. If Huawei, Samsung or Apple can do it, so should Leica. 
 

William

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19 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

To make this stuff work we need to know when switch OFF is different from power-saving timer OFF (on the camera they seem to be the same,) .

I think you're right. Or, at least, both OFF states remove power from the Bluetooth chip.

If we're lucky, that could be fixed in firmware. If not, wait for the Q3.

Incidentally, power-saving has rescued me more than once, since I have inadvertently flicked the switch back ON by putting the camera in the bag at close of play. I don't really want it chatting pointlessly to my phone all night, draining the battery.

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40 minutes ago, Wireman said:

I'm prepared to cut them some slack, here. It's notoriously difficult to engineer a protocol that has to interface with a wide (and growing) range of devices. I have little experience with Android, but I know that Apple are fairly (and admirably, imho) picky about what they will let third-party peripherals do to a locked iPhone.

My (partially informed) guess is that when the Q2 is asleep (LCD/EVF off) it periodically checks in with the iPhone which - even if locked - is happy to keep the connection persistent. 

However, if the Q2 is powered off (hard or soft), I suspect it stops checking in. A locked iPhone will give the paired Q2 a short "grace period", but when it doesn't get an "I'm still here" from the camera, it "drops the line" and won't reconnect until the phone is deliberately unlocked by user authentication (face, fingerprint, passcode).

This is a security feature baked into the phone by Apple and prevents potentially nefarious actors from accessing it without your knowledge. The restriction cannot be over-ridden by third-party developers (even Leica).

The solution (as far as my tests show) is to:
a) leave the camera on during a shoot; and
b) disable power-saving.

I already do a). Only time will tell if b) causes battery pain. If it does, then I just have to get used to unlocking my phone if I want reliable geotagging.

Interesting.  Does the Apple trick of locking an iPhone have an equivalent in Android?  And with Leica's power management, the timer-based power down is really the same as switched power OFF.  The differences seem to be that switched power off can't be overridden by the shutter button, while when you set BT wakeup, that can do it, so the OFF camera is still listening to the BT channel, and the camera continues to operate with the switch still showing OFF once it wakes up.  (Display OFF and camera OFF are the only two times that you can set on an SL.)

Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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vor 2 Stunden schrieb scott kirkpatrick:

Does the Apple trick of locking an iPhone have an equivalent in Android?

Yes Android does the same usually.
After a given time a Android OS phone locks itself and go in semi-sleep mode to save battery.
This may be possible to switch of totally but battery life will be shorted (greatly).
On my Galaxy 20 settings are
max time for screen on is 10 Min
phone lock will kick in 5 sec after screen lock

I think that most problems are related to Permits each App need/has, at least Android has that.
Every/Most App/s under Android have permits:
permits ro read from memory
permits to use mic and camera
Permits to acess data and acess location
Etc, etc

I guess that this permit is the biggest problem and leads to the inconsitent experiences some have here.
The permit for Leica Fotos must be granted and (if available) always and not only on request.
Same is valid for bluetooth connection and the phones location service so that they don't switch off or go to sleep.

Not sure if IOS is having the same/similar kind of permits to control what Apps are doing and accessing.

Smartphones are complicated thingies nowadays...

Chris

 

Edited by PhotoCruiser
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All very interesting and it just goes to show the possible permutations and why Leica really should have shown real examples with the Q2 or SL2 etc via YouTube.

Following my observations yesterday some further quick points regarding iPhones/iPads:

1. There appears to be no need to activate Remote Wakeup in the Q2 or SL2 menu, Bluetooth just needs to be on.
2. If the power switch is on and then the camera sleeps/hibernates I tested it after about two hours in the this state and tapped focus to 'wake' the camera. My iPhone X was also locked for that time and when I tapped the iPhone screen, following waking the Q2, geotagging didn't work at that point. However, if I brought FOTOS up on the screen Bluetooth connected, as well as Geotagging, pretty much instantly.
3. I have Geotagging set to 'Always' so it would seem that for longer periods of shooting, when there are times your Leica will be asleep for 10 mins plus say, then it's advisable to have the FOTOS app running as the app on the iPhone screen before it locks so that in my case to reactivate Geotagging you just need to use Face ID and then as soon as FOTOS is displayed the link is re-established to override the iOS security protocols.

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Yes, good thoughts and test.
I think that there are a lot of probles as people may have different settings in their smart devices.

I will leave Friday finally back home to Sardinia/Italy so i don't have time in the next days to make more tests.

What i remeber is that the first test i made i left the Q2 sleep without switching her off and geotagging worked flawless.
This may be the explanation why this day geotagging was on the correct position as the other tests i switched the Q2 off.
Even if the Satellitesymbol lit up after switching the camera on the position is partially wrong, right was always only the first photos after i connected.

Under Android it seems to me that it works with the phone "sleeping" in my pocket as long the camera is also sleeping and not switched off between shots.

Regarding your IPhone,
have a look at the settings for Blutooth, Leica Fotos and similar apps who can interfere sending coordinates if the screen is off and phone locked.
As long you can transmit music by Blutooth while the IPhone is locked -what makes sense - bluetooth is always on and Leica Fotos should be able access the position.
I have no idea how IPhones work so i cannot give specific hints, just general and from Android translated basic hints.

However, in one of the trads is a IPhone User and he claims that all is working great on his phone,
you may search this tread and ask him.

Chris
 

 

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Total failure of geotagging for me today. I keep the Fotos app running on my iPhone at all times and it is often the only thing running. I took a few photos on three occasions this afternoon and not a single one has location info. The phone was with me the whole time. I even used the Fotos app to download each set along the way. You'd think that connecting the camera for downloading would have refreshed the geolocation - but then that would make sense and that is clearly beyond these engineers.

It wasn't until I killed the app and restarted it that I got a photo that supposedly has geolocation. So much for that message that says geotagging is disabled when you kill the app. It had already graciously disabled it long before that.

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