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Leica Fotos for iPad, what a joke!

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Since we are all staying at home and getting to learn what the tools can do I gave the Fotos Pro a subscription trail.

I am not going to get into the $50 year discussion.

 

1. Connection experience was ok with SL2,  it could be faster and reconnect automatically if needed. the connection is lost if you switch screens.

2. The content of the card came up ok, they are big files so I don't aspect too much. selecting and downloading is ok.

3. Remote shooting is very limited, just a few exposure settings , metering, resolution of JPG and White balance. I think it is missing shooting modes, I like to see bracketing and drive mode. If you shoot from the camera the APP freezes and nothing works anymore.

If you are use to use the APP from Panasonic or Sony you will realize that remote shooting from this app I just not a reality, it is ok for the occasional snapshot when you can't see the screen. For me that does a full day shoot for interior  architecture photography from the iPad this is a useless tool.

4. GPS it looks like the images are only tagged with a location when you actually do remote shooting in the app. It is disappointing but I know it is not simple balancing connection and battery life. It does not work seamless in other platforms either 

I hope Leica has a chance to read the reviews and reflects on the changes it need to implement to do.

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I rarely post, but the Leica Fotos app is a very sore spot. They literally took away the basic functionality they previously offered for free (as is offered for free with the purchase of a camera by every other camera manufacturer) and brought that functionality back requesting $50.00 a year for infinity to get the functions returned to us. I am fine with paying the Leica premium for their great cameras and lenses but the annual subscription I found somewhat insulting. Actually, I did find it insulting. The "features" they added became even less relevant with the introduction of IpadOS. The SD card issues with the SL2 and Fotos app as well as the blocking of DNG downloads on Q2 were truly brand damaging. They are just lucky so many of their customers never use their app/phone with their cameras. This will not help them attract new/younger buyers. Very frustrating coming from Leica. This is also a potentially bad sign of what is to come as they transform into a "software" company.

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15 hours ago, not12bhere said:

I rarely post, but the Leica Fotos app is a very sore spot. They literally took away the basic functionality they previously offered for free (as is offered for free with the purchase of a camera by every other camera manufacturer) and brought that functionality back requesting $50.00 a year for infinity to get the functions returned to us. I am fine with paying the Leica premium for their great cameras and lenses but the annual subscription I found somewhat insulting. Actually, I did find it insulting. The "features" they added became even less relevant with the introduction of IpadOS. The SD card issues with the SL2 and Fotos app as well as the blocking of DNG downloads on Q2 were truly brand damaging. They are just lucky so many of their customers never use their app/phone with their cameras. This will not help them attract new/younger buyers. Very frustrating coming from Leica. This is also a potentially bad sign of what is to come as they transform into a "software" company.

As an IT guy myself, I find that the Leica Fotos App on the iPad is a joke.  I tried it on my 12.9" iPad Pro after getting my SL2 and I’m not impressed as it doesn’t work all the time. Connection to the app is a tedious process initially as the interface is not intuitive.  Therefore, I’m actually quite amazed by the audacity of Leica.  They actually wanted to have a yearly fee structure for an app that is supposedly free (albeit unlocking some features for the paid app) and the app is totally unstable.

Like most other Leica aficionados, we have no qualms paying TOP DOLLARS for their camera, lenses, bags and other accessories, but to pay a yearly fee for an unstable app is truly an insult.  I’ve given them a few feedback in their Feature Request and hope they will consider it.  I don’t mind paying a one-time fee of $50-$60 to support the development of the app, but not a yearly fee for an unstable app.  

Really frustrating trying to connect to the app after both the camera and iPad goes to sleep, GPS Geo-tagging doesn’t work, when it does, it is 1-2 km away from the actual location.  I was like....WTH, since when did I go there when the photo clearly shows I’m somewhere else.  Sigh.....they shouldn’t have removed the GPS on the SL2.  Maybe they should have an external GPS like those built into the Visoflex 020. 

The Leica Fotos development team really need to read the reviews on both the AppStore and PlayStore.

Edited by fotonutzz

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I was trying to shoot some selfies today using the app and it was totally unstable. Had to exit / restart about 10 times in the space of half an hour. The app was freezing on my 12.9 inch iPad Pro every time I switched from the Remote mode to the Library mode. Every time I restarted the app, I had to manually reset my shutter speed and aperture, as it insisted on applying its own Auto settings. A good product in theory but the practical implementation is frustrating. Maybe I was doing something wrong but, for a product of this type, I expect and insist on totally foolproof and intuitive implementation, with no need to "learn" anything.

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vor 18 Stunden schrieb fotonutzz:

As an IT guy myself, I find that the Leica Fotos App on the iPad is a joke.  I tried it on my 12.9" iPad Pro after getting my SL2 and I’m not impressed as it doesn’t work all the time. Connection to the app is a tedious process initially as the interface is not intuitive.  Therefore, I’m actually quite amazed by the audacity of Leica.  They actually wanted to have a yearly fee structure for an app that is supposedly free (albeit unlocking some features for the paid app) and the app is totally unstable.

Like most other Leica aficionados, we have no qualms paying TOP DOLLARS for their camera, lenses, bags and other accessories, but to pay a yearly fee for an unstable app is truly an insult.  I’ve given them a few feedback in their Feature Request and hope they will consider it.  I don’t mind paying a one-time fee of $50-$60 to support the development of the app, but not a yearly fee for an unstable app.  

Really frustrating trying to connect to the app after both the camera and iPad goes to sleep, GPS Geo-tagging doesn’t work, when it does, it is 1-2 km away from the actual location.  I was like....WTH, since when did I go there when the photo clearly shows I’m somewhere else.  Sigh.....they shouldn’t have removed the GPS on the SL2.  Maybe they should have an external GPS like those built into the Visoflex 020. 

The Leica Fotos development team really need to read the reviews on both the AppStore and PlayStore.

It is, indeed, a frustrating design choice from Leica to abandon the reliable GPS hardware (and firmware) from the SL2 and resort to the Fotos App solution, which is clearly not up to even its present tasks at the moment. In terms of the GPS, my SL and S 006 are a joy to use, the geotagging data are there independent whether I need them in the future or not. If the camera GPS is on, there is basically nothing to remember or worry about. For example, you do not need to attend to charging both the cell phone and the camera, the camera battery takes care of it all. 

Maybe Leica thinks some users get kind of a masochistic joy of having to struggle with unreliable pieces of software and even willing to pay for it. Would you like your car to be controlled by a phone app?

 

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I like the idea of Fotos but am also frustrated by the poor implementation and slow pace at which promised features are fixed or even first appear. I like using it for accurate time-setting and can't make small parameter adjustments on my M10-D without it.  I've tested enough to know that the GPS on a Visoflex is not very sensitive.  The SL's built-in GPS is better, but neither is as accurate or as quick to find its location under the usual partly-obscured conditions as any of my phones or tablets, even when they lack a SIM card.  So I'm in favor of letting a phone do the geolocation.  It works pretty well on my Lumix S1R with Panasonic's equivalent of Fotos, and only uses the BTLE link to minimize battery drain.   But Fotos isn't there yet.

Lumix Synch solves the problems of harmonizing control inputs from the remote app with those made at the camera by only letting one side (camera or tablet) be in control.  And the Lumix app can adjust quite a few more control settings from its remote app.  Leica hasn't let very much be controlled (even on the M10-D, which can do more than you can see with the other models).  You can set continuous shooting or bracketing in drive mode using Fotos, but neither of them works in Remote.  I can understand continuous shooting not working, since there isn't both a button down and button up function on the Fotos shutter button, but why can't Fotos trigger a bracket of three shots?  Of course, Fotos can't do video without solving this problem, probably by making the shutter button mean Start when the video is not running, and Stop when it is, but I'm not willing to spend $50 to find out. Also, how will Fotos handle the multishot HiRes mode that we have been promised if it can't trigger a bracket?

Not having the Fotos App insist on installing its own silly settings instead of leaving the camera in the state it was in has been suggested and Leica seems to understand that is desirable.  But they also aren't there yet. The most recent iOS and Android versions of Fotos (with different version numbers) deal with this differently, so maybe they are working on it.  There are two parts to this -- do you want Fotos to start remote operation in its standard state, which you can change by setting aperture, ISO and shutter to your preferences, but leave the camera as it found it when you exit?  Or would you rather that Fotos uses the camera in the state it finds it, and leaves it in whatever state you put it into.  Or some of both?  My preference would be for the camera to start out the way I set it, and to return to that state when Fotos disconnects.

And wouldn't it be reasonable for the histogram and level indicators to show up in the remote app?

Edited by scott kirkpatrick

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19 hours ago, fotonutzz said:

GPS Geo-tagging doesn’t work, when it does, it is 1-2 km away from the actual location.

Agree with everything else, but GPS coordinates come from your iPad. You'll need to ask Apple to fix that particular issue.

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I am a great fan of reliable gear. Often, reliability comes along with simplicity. 

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Wow....I'm so happy and glad that I'm not alone with regards to this😄

Almost smashed my phone in anger when I was in Germany and trying so hard to sync my phone to the SL2 using the Fotos app. 

So, if the folks from Leica are reading this, you might wanna consider fixing the problems first before making loyal Leica fans pay for an unstable app as that will tarnish the good reputation of Leica. 

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On 5/10/2020 at 9:13 PM, fotonutzz said:

....

Really frustrating trying to connect to the app after both the camera and iPad goes to sleep, GPS Geo-tagging doesn’t work, when it does, it is 1-2 km away from the actual location. ...

The Leica Fotos development team really need to read the reviews on both the AppStore and PlayStore.

An error as large as 1-2 km probably means that the tablet or phone had an old geo coordinate stored in it and couldn't update it.  Before blaming Fotos, check to see where the blue dot on Google or Apple maps shows up.  Or is there even a blue dot (showing the phone knows its location)?  Another trick I used when I was curious about how sensitive different GPS solutions were, was to take out my old Garmin hiker's GPS and see how many satellites it could find.  If there are only 3-4, nothing is going to work for long.

Fotos has a feedback button to let you send detailed comments and bug complaints to Leica customer service, accompanied by a full log file.  You generally get an ack back from customer service.  And sometimes even a detailed answer if your complaint is being worked on.

I'm inured to having to make multiple attempts to get a first connection.  I think there are serious timing issues in getting the wifi code sequences synchronized between phone and camera, and it seems to take some time in the field to surface all the issues that different manufacturers create.  But I do already find Fotos useful, at least as a live view remote.

 

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Not sure where in the menu of the camera you find Geotagging to turn on..

I just did a test connected to the app and it looks like you still have to shoot from IOS button to get location, I am just connected and shoot from the camera there is nothing.

I suppose don't get to exited.

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So I was wrong about the Geotagging only option, there is a way to use it in camera when the FOTOS app is open.

If you leave the app open , the wifi connection is not necessary, and the phone screen does not have to be on..

 

To enable it on the SL2 and Q2 click on the  " ... " and set to always

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Photoworks

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The phone app lets me run in free mode but the iPad version simply won’t start without signing up for the subscription, am I missing something basic here?  Ps, it really is the black sheep of the Leica stable!

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14 hours ago, johntobias said:

The phone app lets me run in free mode but the iPad version simply won’t start without signing up for the subscription, am I missing something basic here?  Ps, it really is the black sheep of the Leica stable!

So burn the Fotos for iPad app that you currently have and load the simple Fotos for iOS app on your iPad.  The Apple store now has both and it has been a while since I was able to load the iPad one and tiptoe around the $50 signup.  Now I just use the simple version.

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$50 is insulting and that is what it makes it hard to swallow the numerous nuisances that the app perpetually regurgitates. 

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They have set things up so that if you want to control video shooting through the Fotos remote you need the paid app.  Same for continuous shots.  I did see at one time (a month or more ago) that the $50 fee was deferred so that you get one year free and can cancel at the end of that time.  Does that still exist?                                        

edit:  seems not.  7 days free trial then you are charged for a year's subscription.

Edited by scott kirkpatrick

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On 7/8/2020 at 1:46 AM, scott kirkpatrick said:

They have set things up so that if you want to control video shooting through the Fotos remote you need the paid app.  Same for continuous shots.  I did see at one time (a month or more ago) that the $50 fee was deferred so that you get one year free and can cancel at the end of that time.  Does that still exist?                                        

edit:  seems not.  7 days free trial then you are charged for a year's subscription.

There is no way to reset trail and try out the new iPad option. I did pay for it but this software still need improvements.

Every time you reconnect all the options go to auto, not reflecting what you have set up in camera before. No profiles can be picked in software.

Video lags quite a bit, this is probably to be aspected.

I am surprised that they didn't plane for Multi-Shot in the software like the never know that SL2 2.0 FW was coming, you can reselected it in camera, but it goes away every time you view the photo.

 

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Let's see if they add multishot to the Fotos drive menu when they update Fotos to know about the M10-R.  I'm using Fotos 2.1, and it leaves most of the camera settings as it finds them now.  Is the Pro version behind on that?  

I have a suspicion that Fotos is being run outside of the existing product groups, with the code written by people very far away.  Despite what Leica says about computational imaging being an important future direction, the skillset that is used to write iOS and Android apps is a long way from doing camera firmware.

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On 7/13/2020 at 1:40 PM, scott kirkpatrick said:

Let's see if they add multishot to the Fotos drive menu when they update Fotos to know about the M10-R.  I'm using Fotos 2.1, and it leaves most of the camera settings as it finds them now.  Is the Pro version behind on that?  

I have a suspicion that Fotos is being run outside of the existing product groups, with the code written by people very far away.  Despite what Leica says about computational imaging being an important future direction, the skillset that is used to write iOS and Android apps is a long way from doing camera firmware.

Leica has claimed they setup an in house group to take over the Fotos app. I also share your doubts about in house development.

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