iMac - Photos --> PS Elements problem

[Jon Warwick]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

My set-up, until today, on my iMac was iPhoto --> PS Elements 18.

I could easily click on bottom-right of DNG file in iPhoto and it would open up the RAW processor in PS Elements 18 for editing the DNG.

I've recently downloaded Catalina v 10.15.4. It seems iPhoto is now not supported whatsoever, and i've imported all my files to view in Photos.

My problem = how to edit the DNGs located in Photos in PS Elements 18?

If i click Image --> Edit with --> PS Elements, the latter opens but flags up a box saying "This document contains 16 bit layers, which are not supported in Photoshop Elements. Consider either flattening the document, which will allow only limited editing capability, or converting it to 8-bit color depth, which will maintain layers and still support millions of colors."

The options are then to Cancel or Flatten or Convert depth, which merely put the file into a RGB or Tiff without any RAW processor coming into action. 

I'm wondering too why the DNG is causing PS Elements to suggest it has 16 bit LAYERS ....i don't think 16 bit LAYERS were permissible ever in PS Elements 18, but this is a DNG file and opening into my version of PS was never a problem in the past....

Any help HUGELY gratefully received!!

PS .... if you think there is a really better way to manage my DNGs (in terms of viewing my "events" (ie, albums), and also editing the DNGs to prep for printing) then I'd appreciate any alternative suggestions.

Maybe an overhaul of how i do things here is overdue .....

Edited May 6, 2020 by Jon Warwick

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[zeitz]

Jon, try copying your files to your computer using the Image Capture app instead of using Photos.  Then try to open the files from PS Elements in the way you would open any file.  I don't have any version of Photoshop Elements to try it so I don't really know if it will fix the problem.

[jaapv]

Or (batch) run the files through Adobe's DNG converter, that usually clears compatibility problems. 
BTW, TIFF is not a problem (except for the size), basically DNG files are very similar to TIFF. 

[Exodies]

Edit in Photos? 

[Jon Warwick]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I have looked a bit more into this issue that I am having with Apple’s Photos

1 - the “edit with (Photoshop Elements)” function in Photos does not push the DNG to open in Adobe Camera Raw in Photoshop Elements. Rather it seems to want to immediately flatten or convert the file into a jpeg or tiff for opening in Photoshop, and hence is completely ignoring ACR!

2 - the same “edit with” function works fine with Capture One and allows the DNG to open fine in that C1 software  ....

3 - .... and I can Export the DNG to a folder within Photoshop Elements and it opens fine from there into Adobe Camera Raw

--> 2 and 3 above make me thing the DNG itself is probably ok. 
—> the issue is when using “edit with (Photoshop Elements)” in Photos, the DNG is not opening directly into ACR.

Not sure if the above prompts any more thoughts or experiences, but anything greatly appreciated. 

[jaapv]

The main problem I have with Photos is that it is impossible to delete... 🙄

[Jon Warwick]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Also out of curiosity, for those on an Apple system, ....

- is it fairly standard to drag in images into the Photos library to use as the “photo album”, but you edit (with external editor like Lightroom or Photoshop) from there? Or is there another simple  (family-friendly!) way to manage the “photo albums” side of things?

- in Finder, I see the file for the Photos/iPhoto library (a large 700GB file at that).....how can one drill down further into the original files that were taken by the camera? Or once the DNGs are stored in Photos/iPhoto library, is that not possible except through the Photos/iPhoto interface itself?

Edited May 8, 2020 by Jon Warwick

[jaapv]

15 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

Also out of curiosity, for those on an Apple system, ....

- is it fairly standard to drag in images into the Photos library to use as the “photo album”, but you edit (with external editor like Lightroom or Photoshop) from there? Or is there another simple  (family-friendly!) way to manage the “photo albums” side of things?

- in Finder, I see the file for the Photos/iPhoto library (a large 700GB file at that).....how can one drill down further into the original files that were taken by the camera? Or once the DNGs are stored in Photos/iPhoto library, is that not possible except through the Photos/iPhoto interface itself?

In the finder just below "downloads" you can find the "pictures" folder. You find the photos library in there. I deleted it. I keep my DNGs on a  separate data disk and a backup  data disk, sorted in folders by year, in subfolders by date. I use Bridge.

When using my laptop I have a similar structure on my desktop. Everything gets  saved  automatically to iCloud, so I can access it from any location   if needed.

[zeitz]

Jon, did you try Image Capture to get the files from your card onto your computer?

Photos is a very rigid piece of software.  By trying to be simple for the lowest-common-denominator user, flexibility is sacrificed.  There is no reason you have to use Photos.

Does Photoshop Elements have "Filter/Capture Raw Filter . . ."?

Jaap, I didn't know .tif format is that close to .dng raw format.  I always thought of it as being closer to .psd in the sense it preserves the layers and metadata, but the raster image that is stored is after the de-mosaic operation.  Does .tif allow changes made to the Background Layer to be reversed?  If you select open .tif with Camera Raw, can the changes made be reversed?  The only time I use .tif is to bring my few Phase One images from Capture One to a format Photoshop can read.

[marchyman]

5 hours ago, zeitz said:

I always thought of it as being closer to .psd in the sense it preserves the layers and metadata, but the raster image that is stored is after the de-mosaic operation.

You are correct that a TIFF file contains a raster image.  File format is similar to the DNG format (which started life based upon the TIFF version 6 format).  More precisely, Adobe states that the DNG format conforms to TIFF/EP (ISO 12234-2).

[zeitz]

Wanting to have a quick look at the standard, I was surprised to find that ISO 12234-2 is only available by purchase, at about $175.  While Adobe owns .tif as well as .dng and .pdf, apparently there is some information used in the standard that is from current patents, including patents held by Canon, Fuji, Kodak, Nikon and Olympus.  Now I'm very curious about ISO 12234-2, but not $175 curious.

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, zeitz said:

Jon, did you try Image Capture to get the files from your card onto your computer?

Photos is a very rigid piece of software.  By trying to be simple for the lowest-common-denominator user, flexibility is sacrificed.  There is no reason you have to use Photos.

Does Photoshop Elements have "Filter/Capture Raw Filter . . ."?

Jaap, I didn't know .tif format is that close to .dng raw format.  I always thought of it as being closer to .psd in the sense it preserves the layers and metadata, but the raster image that is stored is after the de-mosaic operation.  Does .tif allow changes made to the Background Layer to be reversed?  If you select open .tif with Camera Raw, can the changes made be reversed?  The only time I use .tif is to bring my few Phase One images from Capture One to a format Photoshop can read.

I only found out when Rescue Pro rendeerd the DNGs on a faulty card as .TIF files. I only  had to change the extensions in the file names to bring them back to DNGs

[frame-it]

15 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

- in Finder, I see the file for the Photos/iPhoto library (a large 700GB file at that).....how can one drill down further into the original files that were taken by the camera?

 in the finder, right click on the app, show package contents, the folder "originals" will have the Raw files, in separate subfolders depending on imports

[Jon Warwick]

Thanks for all your help.

I have tried Image Capture and from there DNGs open fine into ACR. 

If I continue with Apple’s Photos, the easiest workaround to process the DNG seems to me doing “export unmodified original for 1 photo” to put the file into Elements 20, which I can then open fine to process as a DNG via ACR.

Only thing I have noticed is the latest Raw plug-in available in Elements 20 is only version 12.0 .... but Adobe notes that the “minimum” required for my Leica SL2 is version 12.1. The images still look excellent to me using just version 12.0 ... was curious how much, or quite what, is typically left on the table by not using the minimum Raw plug-in?

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Jon Warwick

[zeitz]

The current Camera Raw is 12.2.1.  From Adobe's website "Because DNG metadata is publicly documented, software readers such as Camera Raw do not need camera-specific knowledge to decode and process files created by a camera that supports DNG."  I thank Leica every day for using DNG.  For me, the best camera profiles are still the ones I make myself.  I assume Elements can accept custom-made profiles.