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[jaapv]

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With native lenses as well.

[Marac]

Duddingston - I still have an M8 simply because it is just as the film Leica's, (still have film bodies too although not Leica anymore),very simple to use and get results. I use it as a 'poor man's' monochrome and it's perfect. I'm sure you would enjoy one of those.

Also, I have my CL set to full manual and saved as a user profile and it is the best way to set up a CL IMHO by using profiles.

I also have a profile for full auto (not P mode) for when I'm snapping without thinking.

Have you ever had someone offer to take a photo of you at an iconic location? hand them an M8 sit back and enjoy the show. I had one guy hold my M8 at arms length and say "I can't see anything".

Anyway, enjoy your camera, set it up to fit the way you want to shoot 

 

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[Duddingston]

Actually I am not sorry to see the demise of film in cameras. I have now set up my CL with User profiles which are not fully explained in the manual.

You have however set the cat amongst the pigeons by talking about full auto as opposed to "P" so its back to the drawing board again !!!

[jaapv]

Reports of the demise of film are greatly exaggerated... 

[ramarren]

6 hours ago, nicci78 said:

We shouldn’t have to read any manual at all. If you have to, the designers failed.

Absolute nonsense. 

[dfdann]

Present company excepted but this thread reminds me of what I heard my 

First  Sargent tell a recruit. “Boy you couldn’t pour Pi** out of a boot with the

instructions printed on the heel.”  Also the previously mentioned “ When all else

fails read the instructions “

Cheers Dan

[nicci78]

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I am talking about unmarked dial or buttons.  Acting as software buttons or dial. Their function can be alter. 
Of course you have to explain them ! Just like new gestures for iPhone and iPad. 
In a way it is brilliant. But not intuitive at all. Impossible to guess without help of of a quick starting guide. Which the way Leica and Apple chose. 
Quick printed guide and no manual at all. 
Because except these original input methods. Everything else should be self explanatory. 

[jaapv]

Well, yes, things like that might need a quick-start guide, but so do most other things in life. If nobody explains the basic functions of the pedals and shift lever, you'll never be able to drive a car. Heck, I wouldn't know  how to operate the zipper on my coat if my mother hadn't told me you need  to  pull  it up and down.

[Duddingston]

First I need ask :- Does one need to pull the zipper up and down on a coat ? I often wondered how they worked ………..(I had a bad mother)

Secondly I knew it was a mistake joining a forum, all this chatting etc and yesterday partly in an attempt to pacify Ramarren I spent all day reading the bl""dy manual but learnt nothing new. In fact the only thing I have leant of any use to me was that if you save settings to a user profile everything in play at that time on the camera including manual exposure etc are saved AND this I learnt on the forum AS it is NOT explained in the Manual ( FAO: Ramarren).

The CL is by my reckoning too heavy and too complicated by far. All tecno junckies will disagree but hopefully a purist will agree. I think all this tecno stuff gets into between the photographer and what he is shooting and to some extent removes some of the pleasure of taking a photograph. Six hours reading manual is probably more time than I will actually spend taking photos in the next year by which time I will have forgotten most of what I read !!!

The same applies with cars, whilst some technology is useful (rear reversing camera for example) one gets more please driving an old banger down a country  lane with the hood down than driving a modern car with all the bells and whistles.

Any way happing motoring to you all …… oops wrong forum.

[lct]

5 minutes ago, Duddingston said:

[...] The CL is by my reckoning too heavy and too complicated by far. All tecno junckies will disagree but hopefully a purist will agree. I think all this tecno stuff gets into between the photographer and what he is shooting and to some extent removes some of the pleasure of taking a photograph. Six hours reading manual is probably more time than I will actually spend taking photos in the next year by which time I will have forgotten most of what I read !!!

Different experience and feeling here. I'm no techie at all and i must have spent half an hour on the manual at most. I take more photos than you do though perhaps and i have more experience with mirrorless cameras i suspect. Now i use only manual lenses, mostly in auto iso manual mode, which can be another explanation. FWIW.

[ruskkyle]

Hey @Duddingston hope you’re not too off-put by this. I’ve found the forum to be a nice place to hang out, especially for browsing the excellent image threads in this and other subsections.

Re the CL, I would recommend you stick with it, I’ve always felt it’s a bit of a ‘grower’ which felt a bit weird to me at first. It’s second nature now.

All the best!

edit- I would also recommend getting a Thumbie which spreads the weight of the camera much better in the hand

Edited May 9, 2020 by ruskkyle

[jaapv]

Too heavy???  Leica CL 365 gram. Fuji XPro 450 gram, Canon EOS M5 427 gram...🙄 And arguably the simplest UI of all mirrorless cameras...  If this doesn't work for you for these reasons, I'm at a loss to recommend any other camera.

[Duddingston]

Jaap - you scare the hell out of me ! How of earth do you know what the CL weights let alone what the Fuji and Canon weigh ? I think we are from different planets - I hadn't even heard of a Fuji Xpro or a Canon EOS let alone wondered what they may weight.  I was comparing the CL weight with my Leica F3 which I would buy every time if Leica were to ever make a digital version of it. I suppose I bought the CL because it looked like my F3, nostalgia played a big part !

My ideal is a digital camera so no film and instant viewing, a light meter nice but not essential and auto focusing unless manually simple like a F3. I'd like to use a shutter release cable rather than a smart phone or tablet in low light conditions and a socket for a flash gun rather than a bulky gadget parked on top.

I will keep my CL because I have spent all next years pocket money on it and now saving up for a 55 - 135 lens. I will succeed !!!!

Currently in Spain under lock down and itching to return to my home in France to start taking pictures.  

Enclosing a portrait I took recently of my partners grandchildren

 

 

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[jaapv]

The leica iii f weighs 410 gram, 431.8 with film...🙄

[Duddingston]

OMG !

Now looking at a Panasonic LX100 on ebay s/hand for £150 -/+ has Leica Lens looks very similar to a CL but has the F stops and shutter speeds visible and operated manually. Weight 393 gms

[jaapv]

Not quite comparable in image quality, I fear. APS-C is the smallest for really good, but M 4/3 which I like to use for really long wildlife, is  acceptable, with high-level postprocessing.   The LX 100-II with 21,7 MP sensor is the minimum IMO.  The 12 MP sensor of  the original LX 100 does not quite cut it any more, reason it is  so  cheap.

Fair warning: I have a  few Panasonics - I am  unable  to operate  them without a manual on hand. I  find the system of assignable buttons all over the place  and on the LCD as well  completely counter-intuitive.

[lct]

1 hour ago, Duddingston said:

[...] Now looking at a Panasonic LX100 on ebay s/hand for £150 -/+ has Leica Lens looks very similar to a CL but has the F stops and shutter speeds visible and operated manually. Weight 393 gms

I have both. The Lx100 is a very good camera indeed with very good image quality if you are not put off by electronic image correction. Manuals and menus are more complicated than those of the CL though. Also the EVF is significantly smaller. Doesn't play in the same league as the CL in that one cannot use their favorite lenses on it and it is not an APS camera. Also i don't use it above 1600 iso vs 3200 for the CL. Now the Lx100 is hard to beat on moving subjects like children and it is no slouch on landscapes either. Great little camera if you don't need more than 12MP. I prefer its image quality to that of the Lx100ii BTW but it's just me. FWIW.

[wda]

44 minutes ago, lct said:

I have both. The Lx100 is a very good camera indeed with very good image quality if you are not put off by electronic image correction. Manuals and menus are more complicated than those of the CL though. Also the EVF is significantly smaller. Doesn't play in the same league as the CL in that one cannot use their favorite lenses on it and it is not an APS camera. Also i don't use it above 1600 iso vs 3200 for the CL. Now the Lx100 is hard to beat on moving subjects like children and it is no slouch on landscapes either. Great little camera if you don't need more than 12MP. I prefer its image quality to that of the Lx100ii BTW but it's just me. FWIW.

Its sensor is micro four-thirds, I believe. It is renowned as a good all-round compact camera. It does have a compensation dial, if you work that way.

However,  if you struggle with Leica menus, Panasonic has its own level of complexity. But it is easy to learn and the results can be excellent. It is a definite keeper for me.

[jaapv]

Easy to learn, maybe. But I always struggle to e all which function  I assigned to which button. 

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Hallo,

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