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Best M8 DNG converter?

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... Do we even know what materials render purple with this camera? Leica says synthetic, but I saw lots of purple wool and cotton in my RAW files before I used filters. Is this variability in the material, radiated body heat, the nature of shorter wave IR directed at the material or what? ...

Here are two pictures from a recent concert. Primary illumination was tungsten with red gel; images from RAW. (I knew it was an unfriendly lighting situation, but didn't anticipate how unfriendly.)

 

First image from unfiltered pre-aspheric 50/1.4; much worse magenta than I'd have predicted. Second image from filtered 75/1.4 shows truer colors.

 

Who'd a thunk it? Good thing we can check the results on that LCD!

 

--HC

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Hi There Daniel

to get back to the original point.

Have you thought that you might have a dodgy sensor?

Far be it for me to short circuit all the erudite stuff about profiles and converters (all enlightening and interesting).

 

My gut reaction is that there are two issues here:

 

1. Specular highlights (on the water etc.) Of course, these would be blown out with any camera, but the lack of IR filters, in my humble opinion, makes this look nastier, and tends to put coloured edges (this is partly also due to the lack of an AA filter, and used to occur horribly on the Kodak).

 

2. queer patterned breakdown of detail - I see this very mildly on one of my bodies, and not at all on the other - I remember Tim Ashley had it bad on one of his bodies, returned it to Solms and it was completely fixed.

 

Your shots don't show this problem that clearly, but your description fits it very well.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, but it might be worth borrowing a second body and seeing what you get.

 

I shoot a lot of high contrast detail, and to my eyes the M8 files are almost flawless (with the rider that miracles don't happen and specular highlights do get blown out).

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{snipped}

1. Specular highlights (on the water etc.) Of course, these would be blown out with any camera, but the lack of IR filters, in my humble opinion, makes this look nastier, and tends to put coloured edges (this is partly also due to the lack of an AA filter, and used to occur horribly on the Kodak).

{snipped}.

 

Jono--I was with you till you started attributing the coloured edges to lack of an AA filter and IR.

 

IMO, these are what you get with every digicam out there when you blow the highlights by many times the sensor's capability with certain lens combinations.

 

Case(s) in point--some shots from a Canon 50 1.2L and their 85 1.8--obviously not taken on an M8 (can't find what dSRL these are, but this happens just the same on my 5d and 1ds2).

 

Are you guys saying Canon has an IR problem? I don't think so...

 

IR Filters will NOT help this

 

 

 

close-up:

 

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Jono--I was with you till you started attributing the coloured edges to lack of an AA filter and IR.

 

IMO, these are what you get with every digicam out there when you blow the highlights by many times the sensor's capability with certain lens combinations.

 

Case(s) in point--some shots from a Canon 50 1.2L and their 85 1.8--obviously not taken on an M8 (can't find what dSRL these are, but this happens just the same on my 5d and 1ds2).

 

Are you guys saying Canon has an IR problem? I don't think so...

 

IR Filters will NOT help this

 

Well, I mostly take your point - however, I think the IR filter may help (which is what I said) although it won't cure. I also think the lack of an AA filter makes it worse (at least, it did on the Kodak SLR). I'm still a little confused by the lack of moire on the M8 (another normal victim of no AA filter).

 

Still, my original point is that I think Daniel probably has a faulty sensor - but that fixing it won't fix specular highlights.

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Guest guy_mancuso

I'm getting some Moire. Actually looking for a fix right now for the Mac. C1 moire utility tool is NOT working with my M8 files even at 8 bit . See i got it here out of about 100 shots the other day on aircraft cabinets. I am look at Neat image now unless someone has a better answer for the Mac

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@ Jono--I understand about the fringing--I guess for me coming from the Canons, well, *all* of Canon's fast glass fringes in speculars wide open--purple and green, and some of their best glass (like the 85 1.2L) is the most susceptible to it. Stopping down helps a bit with that lens, but not completely.

 

I always thought the Kodak got a really rough ride on this, since all the Nikon / Canon stuff does it too

 

Agreed on Daniel's sensor...

 

@ Guy--you know, the more I look at that shot the weirder it is. I know it looks like moire--but where the heck is the pattern to interfere with? Nowhere--that's a smooth surface.

 

Did you have a grid on the strobes or something (I know, I'm reaching here!)?

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Guest guy_mancuso

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It is weird because i shot a similar cabinet just like it and clean as can be. I used the wall as my main light bouncing strobes into it. This stuff is like glass on the outside , very hard to shoot without nasty reflections which i dealt with but it's felt material inside so makes you really wonder. It has me baffled a little also. BTW shot with the 50 lux which is nothing short of brillant in the sharpness dept.

 

there is a grid softbox coming from the left

 

see here is the next shot with the doors semi closed so it blocks the left light and same thing than a similar cabinet nothing.

 

And my Mac will not let me use the Moire tool no matter what I do , raw or final tif file. I may have to send these two files to a PC user to work on them for me

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Guest Walt

Well, Guy, I think a clue here is that the "zebra stripes" are in the color (and texture?) of the cabinet exterior (alternating with the correct color of the cabinet interior). In the shot without stripes, there is little of the exterior in the shot. But I don't quite know where to go with that.

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Guest guy_mancuso

I got rid of the color and the stripes have gone down. This is a weird one, I will say that . Not worried about it though. I will fix it

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There probably is a very fine pattern on the felt material that comprises the interior. It probably is a woven fabric. This is very typical moire pattern from that kind of surface. It is simply caused by interference between the pattern as imaged onto the sensor and the pattern built into the sensor itself.

 

If you changed the distance of your camera slightly to alter the magnification, it might have eliminated it. That may be why one image has moire and the other doesn't (or the material is different.) You may consider shooting this type of image tethered, that way, you can view it at 100% and see it while shooting. At worse shoot a second image very slightly out of focus and retouch the "blurry" interior into the sharp exterior.

 

Someone else posted a similar example from a more predictable surface some time ago:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/28393-moire-removal.html

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Guest guy_mancuso

I did shoot it tethered Alan and it showed up but i thought it went away at 100 percent when i looked. It's my fault . BTW shooting tethered with the M8 is not bad but slow what i do is use the Digital capture that came with the M8 than open Lightroom and do a auto import to the same folder as the capture software is going . So than in LR i place the thumbnails at the biggest setting and they come in about 6 seconds later but still nice and big on my MacBook Pro 15 inch. It's slow becuase you are running it through two software packages. i would really like to see leica work on this software and act more like C1 or have C1 support the M8 would be even better yet . But it works

 

I agree with you though there is some inetrference with the material and when i run into this with flat panel displays zi defocus a little to eliminate it. This one i let slip through the cracks , luckily it's only 2 images but I am working on the fix

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Guy, I think Alan's explanation is the most likely, but you also have a too sharp lens! It is actually picking up this fine pattern, thus causing the interference. A less sharp 50 mm would probably miss it. Maybe keep an older Summicron handy for alternate shots

Perhaps even stopping down your present lens to beyond the diffraction limit (i.e. f 16-22) might do the trick, but that is of course not always possible.

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When I made that post I said to myself, "I rarely get moire with the Canons. Maybe it is the AA filter." And while this may be true I just noticed moire on a shot I made today and I was tethered too and didn't see it either. So much for my advice.

 

Sometimes you just have to accept it. I retouched it out.

 

By the way I tried converting my image with DxO and C-1 and the moire was about the same.

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Guest guy_mancuso

What i should have done when i first spotted it was thrown it out of critical focus a touch , it would have went away. I have run into this before and it works great even stopped down. I have had it with the DMR also and that is the price you pay for no AA filter but it happens maybe 1 percent of the time so much rather be without it. yes the 50 lux is a screamer with sharpness, not a 50 better on the planet in my mind.

 

So folks a good lesson today , is if you run into this just back off the focusing very slightly, images will still be plenty sharp but you can avoid this. This one is my fault and shoud have caught it

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Guest guy_mancuso
When I made that post I said to myself, "I rarely get moire with the Canons. Maybe it is the AA filter." And while this may be true I just noticed moire on a shot I made today and I was tethered too and didn't see it either. So much for my advice.

 

Sometimes you just have to accept it. I retouched it out.

 

By the way I tried converting my image with DxO and C-1 and the moire was about the same.

 

No question Alan i have seen it in the 1dsMKII also and some other canons although pretty rare it just happens and you advice was good , no question. It's really out there in every camera the M8 and DMR will be easier to get and we need to pay attention more. Still a great lesson for all, so i am glad i posted this even though i OT from the orginal thread topic , sorry folks

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When I made that post I said to myself, "I rarely get moire with the Canons. Maybe it is the AA filter." And while this may be true I just noticed moire on a shot I made today and I was tethered too and didn't see it either. So much for my advice.

 

Sometimes you just have to accept it. I retouched it out.

 

By the way I tried converting my image with DxO and C-1 and the moire was about the same.

 

Bridesmaid's dresses, in my experience, are the worst for the Canon 5d and 1ds2! And since you're not shooting tethered it has to be fixed in post!

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Guest guy_mancuso

Alan yes no change from LR and C1 about the same , forgot to mention that.

 

Jamie you dead on my friend , it can happen and you don't know until post time.

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I BTW shooting tethered with the M8 is not bad but slow what i do is use the Digital capture that came with the M8 than open Lightroom and do a auto import to the same folder as the capture software is going . So than in LR i place the thumbnails at the biggest setting and they come in about 6 seconds later but still nice and big on my MacBook Pro 15 inch. It's slow becuase you are running it through two software packages. i would really like to see leica work on this software and act more like C1 or have C1 support the M8 would be even better yet . But it works

 

 

Try doing the same thing but use C-1 instead of LR. C-1 can be set to automatically refresh the thumbnail and preview as soon as a new image appears in the folder. With C-1 you can then browse a small section of the preview at 100% to check the file. This might be a lot faster and more convenient. I generally capture directly into C-1 but have also used the Canon Capture utility with C-1 in the way I described and it was fast.

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Guest guy_mancuso

I will test that out Alan and see if it works with C1 , rather use C1 anyway the previews are much larger.

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IIRC, the Leicas aren't supported tethered in C1, just the Canons. I know this was true last year, anyway; I needed to use FlexColour for the tethered DMR.

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