Love for that "Least Loved" 35

[DwF]

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I had a V3 35mm Summicron a while back and liked it. I let it go and held on to my v4 jus cuz, but having A-B'd the two before my decision to sell one, I felt that the two were nearly indistinguishable, and I found that for my purposes, the older 6-element was as good as the newer 7-element.  Fast forward, to 5:30 PM this afternoon, another V3 showed up at my door -okay, funny stuff happens when you shelter at home. I continue to be drawn to this lens, it's feel and construction. I figured If I shoot with it, I'll likley bond with it!  

Some time ago, a well known lens reviewer, presentated of all the Summicron 35 lenses up through the then current ASPH, and referred to this 6-Element version as Leica's "least loved" of all of the iterations of 35mm Summicron for the M system.  Consequently the price of v4 (never mind the 8-Element) inflated to nearly twice what the v3 version costs. "Bokeh-king" a moniker provided by a different reviewer may have inflated the value of the 4th version for a few years, but certainly no one takes that too seriously these days. Make no mistake, I love the v4 and have no intention of parting mine out!  Nor do I have any illusions that discussion here will affect market values. I thought I would share one of my first files from the new lens here....what better place than the Leica Lens section of this forum. 

I welcome others who like this lens to use this thread to share pics they've made with the 35mm Summicron 6-element v3

 

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Edited May 2, 2020 by DwF

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[poli]

I am eyeing a V3 as well. But since I have an m10-d I kinda like my lenses to be 6bit coded. Is it also possible to 6bit code the V3? 

[Jrouffio]

I love this lens!

Maybe not perfect but for the price, it’s a must have for any leica photographer on a budget.

Here is a portrait at f/2, focus at  0.7m.

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[Jeff S]

Mike Johnston, now publisher of TOP, was that ‘other reviewer’ who decades ago, in a photo magazine he edited, put the caption ‘bokeh-king’ under the Summicron version 4.  (He also is known for establishing the spelling and use of the word bokeh, adding the ‘h’ to help readers pronounce the borrowed Japanese term ’boke’. His site gives better background.) He has since explained that the V.4 is anything but a bokeh king, with decent out of focus blur at small apertures at medium distances, but that the bokeh especially ‘sucks’ at large apertures close up.  Unfortunately many people still DO think the lens has some magical bokeh qualities. 

Jeff

Edited May 2, 2020 by Jeff S

[james.liam]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Mike Johnston, now publisher of TOP, was that ‘other reviewer’ who decades ago, in a photo magazine he edited, put the caption ‘bokeh-king’ under the Summicron version 4.  (He also is known for establishing the spelling and use of the word bokeh, adding the ‘h’ to help readers pronounce the borrowed Japanese term ’boke’. His site gives better background.) He has since explained that the V.4 is anything but a bokeh king, with decent out of focus blur at small apertures at medium distances, but that the bokeh especially ‘sucks’ at large apertures close up.  Unfortunately many people still DO think the lens has some magical bokeh qualities. 

Jeff

Resellers for two decades have glommed onto the moniker, 'Bokeh King' to hop up the price of v.4 to ridiculous levels. I blame Mike Johnston 

[DwF]

5 hours ago, poli said:

I am eyeing a V3 as well. But since I have an m10-d I kinda like my lenses to be 6bit coded. Is it also possible to 6bit code the V3? 

I would imagine it could be coded although on my M9M, there is not a specific code designation for the 11309.

Cheers,

David

[Jeff S]

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7 minutes ago, james.liam said:

Resellers for two decades have glommed onto the moniker, 'Bokeh King' to hop up the price of v.4 to ridiculous levels. I blame Mike Johnston 

He knows it.   E. puts once blamed him, too. And now he even reluctantly uses the term bokeh, given its misuse, preferring out of focus blur, specifically the quality, not the quantity of blur (easy, he says just get longer lens and move closer). Since the old article, he has proclaimed a couple of other lenses over the years the ‘new king of bokeh’, both inexpensive: a Sigma and a Panasonic lens (easy to search). He doesn’t think Leica lenses, in general, exhibit great quality of blur.

Jeff

[otto.f]

18 minutes ago, james.liam said:

Resellers for two decades have glommed onto the moniker, 'Bokeh King' to hop up the price of v.4 to ridiculous levels. I blame Mike Johnston 

We should blame this forum for Leica second hand lens prices. It is not the Bokeh King alone, the whole range is going up in rocket speed this last year. A few years ago 1300€ for a Bokeh King was normal, now it’s 2300€ at least. But its predecessor, the 8 elements, mostly considered as mwaaeahh..., could be had for 800€ or so, is now being offered for 1500€.

Edited May 2, 2020 by otto.f

[DwF]

5 hours ago, Jrouffio said:

I love this lens!

Maybe not perfect but for the price, it’s a must have for any leica photographer on a budget.

Here is a portrait at f/2, focus at  0.7m.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Just seeing that this is your first post here, nice one! and Welcome to the forum Jruffo

David

[james.liam]

16 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

He knows it.   E. puts once blamed him, too. And now he even reluctantly uses the term bokeh, given its misuse, preferring out of focus blur, specifically the quality, not the quantity of blur (easy, he says just get longer lens and move closer). Since the old article, he has proclaimed a couple of other lenses over the years the ‘new king of bokeh’, both inexpensive: a Sigma and a Panasonic lens (easy to search). He doesn’t think Leica lenses, in general, exhibit great quality of blur.

Jeff

Well, some do. The 50AA, the new Noctiluxii, 75 Summilux.

[Jeff S]

14 minutes ago, james.liam said:

Well, some do. The 50AA, the new Noctiluxii, 75 Summilux.

He could never afford those.  And I’m guessing that he would not embrace the typically high subject contrast with rapid fall off.  Whole diff’rent aesthetic choice. But I’m sure he’d accept a gift to try... along with a film M.

Jeff

[Ko.Fe.]

55 minutes ago, otto.f said:

We should blame this forum for Leica second hand lens prices. It is not the Bokeh King alone, the whole range is going up in rocket speed this last year. A few years ago 1300€ for a Bokeh King was normal, now it’s 2300€ at least. But its predecessor, the 8 elements, mostly considered as mwaaeahh..., could be had for 800€ or so, is now being offered for 1500€.

 LUF is minuscule on the sale, buy market. Something like 0.0001 %.  Prices for Leitz lenses went up mostly due to eBay, driven by speculants and some rich, non-EU markets.  Yet, I don't see it as big problem. Cosina and at least one Chinese factory makes good RF lenses for normal price. Here is outgoing project in China for direct copy of first version 35 Cron. With matching material of optics. It is free market, if here is demand it gets addressed.

[adan]

7 hours ago, poli said:

I am eyeing a V3 as well. But since I have an m10-d I kinda like my lenses to be 6bit coded. Is it also possible to 6bit code the V3? 

Not by the normal method of replacing the lens mount flange with a coded one. The v.3 (and v.2/v.1, for that matter) has the thicker mount ring that was phased out during the 1970s (as did the 35 Summilux pre-ASPH and 135 Tele-Elmar - also never supported with a 6-bit b/w code pattern).

One would have to find a skilled machinist to machine the 6 recessed indentations into the the existing lens mount (in the exact correct locations), and then one could add the black/white paint easily. There is still the problem of there being no specific code for the v.3 - but the lens optics are similar enough to the v.4 (double-gauss design) that the v.4 coding pattern would be perfectly adequate for fixing optical effects (cyan/red vignetting) and providing EXIF data (unless one is using a v.4 as well ). I use the "35 Sumicron v.4" menu setting for use with a 1970s Summilux pre-ASPH back when the M9 came out - worked just fine in both regards.

It is such a shame Leitz in 1965 was not able to see 40 years into the future and predict the need for consistent lens mount flange thickness for use on digital cameras.

__________________

I've used the v.2 and v.3 35 Summicrons. I did not find them as - persuasive - as the v.4.

However, Mary Ellen Mark certainly used one or the other of them for her 1970s essay Ward 81, to fine effect. As did many photojournalists from the same era.

http://www.maryellenmark.com/text/magazines/american photographer/911T-000-001.html

[DwF]

The maiden voyage shot taken en route last night to pick up my Thai food to go.

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The main intersection of our downtown, Friday evening 7PM

 

[james.liam]

7 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

 LUF is minuscule on the sale, buy market. Something like 0.0001 %.  Prices for Leitz lenses went up mostly due to eBay, driven by speculants and some rich, non-EU markets.  Yet, I don't see it as big problem. Cosina and at least one Chinese factory makes good RF lenses for normal price. Here is outgoing project in China for direct copy of first version 35 Cron. With matching material of optics. It is free market, if here is demand it gets addressed.

That part remains to be seen. They have not shipped a single production sample, save a prototype to a past president of LHSA and another for "Kevin 爱 Forever".

Call me jaded but a hospital I know of had to toss $100k of genuine, "certified" N95 masks from China. The sample that was sent was tested and appeared authentic. The shipment...turned out neither genuine nor certified. And not 'N95'. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by james.liam

[shirubadanieru]

I tried all leica 35mms, and would rate 8e way above all others. And @otto.f the 8e is definitely more than 1500eur in Asia, if you know any shop that sells 8e for that price please let me know ahah in Japan / HK it's more like 5000eur for a mint one.

The v2/3 is nice but nothing like the 8e in my opinion. Compared to the v4 it's almost the same with a bit more of a classic rendering which some may prefer. 

After the 8e probably my favorite 35mm was the summaron f3.5 and f2.8.

Edited May 3, 2020 by shirubadanieru

[Ko.Fe.]

1 hour ago, james.liam said:

That part remains to be seen. They have not shipped a single production sample, save a prototype to a past president of LHSA and another for "Kevin 爱 Forever".

Call me jaded but a hospital I know of had to toss $100k of genuine, "certified" N95 masks from China. The sample that was sent was tested and appeared authentic. The shipment...turned out neither genuine nor certified. And not 'N95'. 

We were going to some tax free state up north from Boston and stopped at no sales tax mall.

Almost first thing I have see was Chinese couple with cargo trolley loaded with boxes of known brands. I asked my Chinese senior why. He told me - its because here it is not knock off. 

But lens I'm talking about has clear labeling not to be Leitz Cron. It just honest copy, remake. I don't like China for many reasons, but wouldn't brush them all with same brush. 

 

[DwF]

1 hour ago, shirubadanieru said:

I tried all leica 35mms, and would rate 8e way above all others. And @otto.f the 8e is definitely more than 1500eur in Asia, if you know any shop that sells 8e for that price please let me know ahah in Japan / HK it's more like 5000eur for a mint one.

The v2/3 is nice but nothing like the 8e in my opinion. Compared to the v4 it's almost the same with a bit more of a classic rendering which some may prefer. 

After the 8e probably my favorite 35mm was the summaron f3.5 and f2.8.

It's all what works for you. I began with the 8 Element so I am also familiar with that lens too. I only shot mine with film because I sold it in the nineties before digital cameras, the sale allowed me to buy two other lenses that held my curiosity. I have since shot with v1 and for my purposes consider it along with the rest of them, different but not better or worse. There is no mystique for me, they are all really nice tools. 

David

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[Milan_S]

17 hours ago, otto.f said:

We should blame this forum for Leica second hand lens prices. It is not the Bokeh King alone, the whole range is going up in rocket speed this last year. A few years ago 1300€ for a Bokeh King was normal, now it’s 2300€ at least. But its predecessor, the 8 elements, mostly considered as mwaaeahh..., could be had for 800€ or so, is now being offered for 1500€.

I am curious where you can find an 8 element for 1500euro in good condition go 3000 euro + for the 8 elements v1...

[otto.f]

Ebay