Ilford to raise prices 11/5/20

[Steve Ricoh]

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By up to 15% across the board, but the company says it has nothing to do with Coronavirus. (If it was Corona related you might expect a negative rise in line with a certain recession or worse a possible depression.)

I’ve read the arguments why Kodak and now Ilford are having to raise prices to sustain manufacture and supply. But I’m not sure they’re thinking it through. There comes a tipping point where the youngsters currently shooting film might say, ‘enough is enough’ and either use less film or none at all, reverting to digital. So the price rise could in fact have a negative impact on sales due to diminishing sales and revenue. What then, raise the prices even more and kill off demand further?They could end up chasing their tails.

[aristharcus]

I agree with you, Steve. Prices are already high both for Ilford and Kodak. A 15% increase can lead to "no more film for me". In my case, I would use a roll every month or two, but probably no more.

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[mann61]

You should switch to Fomapan or Rollei. I've given up on Kodak and Ilford, too expensive and inferior, in my opinion.

[adan]

I expect Harman/Ilford (and their accountants, and their owner - Pemberton Ventures Ltd.) have thought this through very carefully.

Correctly calculating the price/demand/profit curves for a product is a pretty basic part of doing business.

See first chart in particular - https://www.business-case-analysis.com/pricing.html

 

[250swb]

6 hours ago, Steve Ricoh said:

But I’m not sure they’re thinking it through.

And you thought it through and decided they should make it at a loss?

[Steve Ricoh]

19 minutes ago, 250swb said:

And you thought it through and decided they should make it at a loss?

No, and I’m not surprised that they’re seeking additional revenue, but in the final analysis it will be the customer base who will decide their fate. The committed, older and financially capable analogue photographers will continue buying their products. The younger generation who are financially constrained will think more than twice, especially in the current environment and especially if every penny counts. 
I would strongly recommend that companies such as Ilford think long and hard. However it may be a case of die if prices don’t increase, or die if they impose a pricing structure that’s incompatible with the customer’s budget for hobbies when more important factors such as mortgage and bread and butter.

[fatihayoglu]

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1 minute ago, Steve Ricoh said:

No, and I’m not surprised that they’re seeking additional revenue, but in the final analysis it will be the customer base who will decide their fate. The committed, older and financially capable analogue photographers will continue buying their products. The younger generation who are financially constrained will think more than twice, especially in the current environment and especially if every penny counts. 
I would strongly recommend that companies such as Ilford think long and hard. However it may be a case of die if prices don’t increase, or die if they impose a pricing structure that’s incompatible with the customer’s budget for hobbies when more important factors such as mortgage and bread and butter.

Steve, have they announced that as I can’t find it anywhere else. If so, I might buy some films with the lower price point.

[Steve Ricoh]

3 hours ago, mann61 said:

You should switch to Fomapan or Rollei. I've given up on Kodak and Ilford, too expensive and inferior, in my opinion.

I’m already a Foma fan, given the news today. No more Ilford for me.

[Steve Ricoh]

15 minutes ago, fatihayoglu said:

Steve, have they announced that as I can’t find it anywhere else. If so, I might buy some films with the lower price point.

I read it on Emulsive.com so assumed it cosha.

Hope it’s not an April Fools joke gone horribly wrong, I’ll see if I can find the source and link it here.

Here we are: https://emulsive.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=ee63f4f7d76f99f6646590c79&id=10fa19db22&e=6819f869de

Edited May 1, 2020 by Steve Ricoh

[fatihayoglu]

5 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said:

I read it on Emulsive.com so assumed it cosha.

Hope it’s not an April Fools joke gone horribly wrong, I’ll see if I can find the source and link it here.

 

Yep just seen as well, chemicals 15%, films between 6 to 10. That means I’ll get some films, have a bit chemical already.

[mdp]

Perhaps Ilford are comparing their pricing to Kodak (in the UK):

HP5+ £5.25 - Tri X 400 £8.50,

Delta 400 £6.25 - TMax 400 £9.50 etc etc 

[250swb]

10 hours ago, Steve Ricoh said:

The younger generation who are financially constrained will think more than twice, especially in the current environment and especially if every penny counts. 
 

The younger generation will still spend £5 for a cup of coffee three times a day, so yes, it's a tough decision for them. Maybe it's an old fashioned idea to give something up when every penny counts? If they haven't infected their Grandma after coming back from Spring break I'm sure she'd tell them about the choices that need to be made in hard times.

The main thing is they didn't say film specifically would be up 15%, they made a batch of film before the factory lockdown, and silver prices are now at a low, so perhaps they can stave off another price increase for some time to come. Pro rata the careful management and expense of running the film line is even more critical than in the heyday of film. It can't be switched on for making just a few films, there has to be a minimum run and that it still quite large, and as soon as the film is packaged there is a 'best before' date stamped on the box so having stocks in vast warehouses isn't feasible, it needs to start selling as soon as it's made. So making and selling film is more akin to food production, and when demand and raw materials are uncertain prices have to be proactive so the company can come out the other side fit and healthy, not scrabbling around reactively to survive.

Any price rise may be the genuine straw that breaks the camels back for some, but if that cup of coffee goes up a similar amount it will be accommodated pretty quickly by most.

[ianman]

If people are using so much film that a 15% increase will make a dent big enough to stop using film, they should be buying bulk anyway... and saving a lot more in the process.

[otto.f]

8 minutes ago, ianman said:

If people are using so much film that a 15% increase will make a dent big enough to stop using film, they should be buying bulk anyway... and saving a lot more in the process.

Yeah, I just checked that before you posted: bulk buying stops at 10 films but then you get less than 10% benefit. Last year I used a sheet film of Kodak TriX from 2003, stored outside the fridge on a hot attic. I saw no difference with sheets from a new pack. So bulk buying now does make sense in 20 years to come. Unless corona spoils everything on a long term basis. But then we’re all in the Titanic. 

[otto.f]

1 hour ago, mdp said:

Perhaps Ilford are comparing their pricing to Kodak (in the UK):

HP5+ £5.25 - Tri X 400 £8.50,

Delta 400 £6.25 - TMax 400 £9.50 etc etc 

I’ve stopped using TriX for another reason, but thanks. I do not see my good old TriX back in the current version, perhaps of the layer having changed. It dries curly, workflow is a pain in the ass. I don’t have this with traditional and new Ilford films. 

[ianman]

10 minutes ago, otto.f said:

bulk buying stops at 10 films but then you get less than 10% benefit

I didn't mean buying 10 or more 36 exposure rolls, I was writing about 30m reels.

A 36 exposure roll costs €5.85, a 30.5m reel is €81.95

I've never measured a 36 exposure length of film but I'll guess it's about 1.50m, (36*(36+2)) + a bit for the leader and end. That means you get 20 36 exposure lengths from one 30.5m reel.

€81.95 / 20 = €4,01... which means it costs roughly 46% more to buy 36 exposure rolls.

 

[fatihayoglu]

2 hours ago, ianman said:

I didn't mean buying 10 or more 36 exposure rolls, I was writing about 30m reels.

A 36 exposure roll costs €5.85, a 30.5m reel is €81.95

I've never measured a 36 exposure length of film but I'll guess it's about 1.50m, (36*(36+2)) + a bit for the leader and end. That means you get 20 36 exposure lengths from one 30.5m reel.

€81.95 / 20 = €4,01... which means it costs roughly 46% more to buy 36 exposure rolls.

 

Is bulk loading easy? Do you need a special film canister as I don't see how you can reuse current film canisters.

[tom.w.bn]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb mann61:

You should switch to Fomapan or Rollei. I've given up on Kodak and Ilford, too expensive and inferior, in my opinion.

So Fomapan is superior to Ilford films? On which planet or in which dimension is this?

From time to time I'm unfaithful to Iflord but after two or three rolls of cheaper stuff I always come back.

[tom.w.bn]

vor einer Stunde schrieb fatihayoglu:

Is bulk loading easy? Do you need a special film canister as I don't see how you can reuse current film canisters.

Bulk loading canisters don't have DX coding. Some people forget that in the beginning.

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[tom.w.bn]

Price increase for single roll films is 6% to 10%. Only chemistry goes up 15%.