Filters on the Monochroms

[davidmknoble]

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1 hour ago, ru2far2c said:

How many monochrome owners keep some one type of B&W filter on your lens? Like Yellow, Orange, Green etc.{ Not talking about UV.) Or do you apply filter effects in post in say SEP, LR or C1.

I would think in camera would be better than in post.

I keep yellow 8 (darker) filters on as a general rule, but keep green and orange in my bag depending.  In camera is almost always better than post for color, but for black and white monochrom’s sometimes it is impossible to process a change in post.  For example, some green foilage and brown leaves may be almost the same black and white tones.  If they are not separated in camera, then they may be too close to separate later.

[shirubadanieru]

I also leave the yellow filter on my lenses by default  

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[ru2far2c]

This may seem like a odd question @davidmkn & @shirubadanieru:

Did you buy filters for each lens or did you buy say the largest filter size say E60 and buy step up/down rings to work with your smaller filters say down to E39.

12 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

I keep yellow 8 (darker) filters on as a general rule, but keep green and orange in my bag depending.  In camera is almost always better than post for color, but for black and white monochrom’s sometimes it is impossible to process a change in post.  For example, some green foilage and brown leaves may be almost the same black and white tones.  If they are not separated in camera, then they may be too close to separate later.

Thank you that is what I thought would be best as well. It is back to that age old adage of get it right in camera!

[shirubadanieru]

40 minutes ago, ru2far2c said:

This may seem like a odd question @davidmkn & @shirubadanieru:

Did you buy filters for each lens or did you buy say the largest filter size say E60 and buy step up/down rings to work with your smaller filters say down to E39.

Thank you that is what I thought would be best as well. It is back to that age old adage of get it right in camera!

One each, i have two lenses i mostly use just for B&W and they are always with the yellow filter; I then have two other lenses I mostly use with film so they stay with the regular filter on

[davidmknoble]

On 5/3/2020 at 8:35 AM, ru2far2c said:

This may seem like a odd question @davidmkn & @shirubadanieru:

Did you buy filters for each lens or did you buy say the largest filter size say E60 and buy step up/down rings to work with your smaller filters say down to E39.

Thank you that is what I thought would be best as well. It is back to that age old adage of get it right in camera!

Not odd at all!

I have lenses with 39mm, 46mm, 49mm, 60mm and Series 7 (24mm 'lux).  Some of these are only one lens, i.e., the 24 'lux (series 7), the 75 'lux (60mm) and the 135 APO (49mm).  But I have multiple lenses at 39mm and 46mm.  So, I have a few yellow filters in those sizes, but not one for every lens.  Then, I only have green, orange and red filters in 39mm and 46mm.  Then, I don't have to swap filters to swap lenses while I'm taking photographs, which outside is preferable.  I will adjust for a color filter, but even then I typically know before I go out which one I want.  I use the yellow for walk around and vacation shooting.

I know they are expensive, but I also prefer Heliopan filters (and I love their cases are one piece, no cardboard box, and labeled on the outside, typically smaller than others).  However, B+W are excellent and I have many of those as well.  I just prefer the brass rings over aluminum as the brass typically doesn't stick in the aluminum lens threads.  Each to his own there...

[setuporg]

On 4/30/2020 at 2:38 PM, peterm1_Leica said:

An "apple green" filter often works well for skin tones if you can find one. Apple green is a pale green and it gives a very nice "healthy" mild suntan effect to European / Caucasian skin tones.

Very interesting!  I have the current Leica green but it's dark.  Ebay shows some Leica GGr filters looking apple green, but they are old and hard to assess online.  Are these the kinds you're talking about?

 

[peterm1_Leica]

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4 hours ago, setuporg said:

Very interesting!  I have the current Leica green but it's dark.  Ebay shows some Leica GGr filters looking apple green, but they are old and hard to assess online.  Are these the kinds you're talking about?

 

Yes that is what I was referring to. But that price strikes me as being silly expensive even for a Leitz filter (although perhaps my understanding of Leica filter prices is out of date.....).  I would think it may be possible to find something suitable at a lower price even if it is not a genuine Leica one.  The one linked below for example looks from the photo to be more or less correct (as you say it is hard to assess online)  and is only $4 USD. It is available in various sizes, though not available in 39mm thread, but you could get a stepping ring (also no more than a couple of dollars) and buy a slightly larger filter. For example when I first started using my M8 and needed IR cut filters for several different lenses (including some Canon lenses in LTM which had odd filter size requirements)  I adopted the alternative practice of buying a 43mm filter and  a variety of step rings to use this  filter on several different lenses. 43mm works on  a variety of rangefinder lens filter ring sizes (e.g. 39mm, 40mm, 40.5mm 41mm) and is not so large as to be unwieldy or look ridiculous. Given the difficulty of finding IR cut filters at that time and given their high price if they could be found,  this was a good and practical solution. You could try the something of the same sort, with a filter such as these.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/37-40-5-43-46-49-52-55-58-62-67-72-77mm-DSLR-Camera-Lens-Color-Filter-for-Canon/254221291352?var=553610882392&hash=item3b30c50f58:g:QswAAOSwWW5b9DG4

I do believe I have a Leitz green filter of the sort you linked on eBay. Although I do not presently use it I will hang onto it in the event that I ever buy a Monochrom - which is kind of in the back of my mind. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by peterm1_Leica

[ru2far2c]

@davidmknoble

My thoughts were to go with step up rings since my lens range would be from E39 to E60 in M mount glass. Yellow and orange seems to be most logical working with a monochrome photographing people. Red and green for landscapes with a tripod. I have alway like Heliopan and B&W filter too. One should be able to pick them up used and other have said above here it is hard to tell what you  are getting buying used. Thank you input. The other posts have been very helpful as well.

Now just need my monochrome to arrive and lockdown to be lifted. 

[setuporg]

As they say in Russian, once you lose the head, you don't mourn the hair.  The filter prices are rounding errors compared to the M10M's, so might as well get genuine Leica filters, or new B+W/Heliopans.

[peterm1_Leica]

I decided to do some searching on the use of pale green (I described it as "apple green") filters for black and white portraits to slightly darken skin tones. I found quite a few threads in which it is recommended for general purpose photography too as an "all round" filter (though most describe it as "yellow-green" which is perhaps an even better description than how I named it). One such thread here:

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/yellow-green-filter-good-all-arounder.131793/

I will mention again that if used for portraits a dark green filter will give a much darker skin tone than the yellow green filter discussed above. Like a blue filter, a dark green filter will also darken skin imperfections like freckles more due to the presence of red tones in those imperfections and hence the chances are will give an unattractive result. And this will usually not be what you want in the final image  unless of course you are a doctor or something of that sort.

Edited May 5, 2020 by peterm1_Leica

[davidmknoble]

17 hours ago, setuporg said:

The filter prices are rounding errors compared to the M10M's, so might as well get genuine Leica filters, or new B+W/Heliopans.

One difference to note on the Leica filters is that Leica went to aluminum frames.  The B+W/Heliopans are all brass frames... Old Leica chrome filters were brass...

[T25UFO]

For anyone who has invested in the Lee filter system, there are a range of colour filters for Monochrom photography.  Not the easiest system to use with a rangefinder, although fine if using live view or the Visoflex.  See this link:

http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera-directory/camera-dir-list/category/black-and-white-filters

[jaapv]

On 5/3/2020 at 12:40 AM, ru2far2c said:

Just curious:

How many monochrome owners keep some one type of B&W filter on your lens? Like Yellow, Orange, Green etc.{ Not talking about UV.) Or do you apply filter effects in post in say SEP, LR or C1.

I would think in camera would be better than in post.

Saw interview recently (sorry can't remember his name and don't think he is or was a Leica ambassador either) about a photographer that shoots monochrome most of the time and he mentioned that he keeps a yellow filter on most of the time.

Standard I keep an orange filter on my 35 mm lens and a deep yellow one on my 85 mm lens. The reason being that I like the tonal rendering, both on skin and on skies. These filters are basically the most "dramatic" ones that don't produce noticeable focus shift, like for instance red filters (and orange ones on long focal lengths) do.

Shifting tonal values in postprocessing to mimic a filter is not even possible on a grayscale file., not in PS, not in SEP and not in LR or C1 for the simple reason that you do not have colour channels. You must be pretty handy with layers and curves, and need to work with brushes to get somewhat close.

I would not advise buying Leica filters. They are more expensive and less quality than for instance B+W and Heliopan. I use vintage Vivitar ones as they can be found in 40 mm, which fits the Zeiss lenses that I prefer on the Monochrom. No quality complaints at all.

[ru2far2c]

I have been looking into B&W and Heliopan new and used. Unfortunately with the current global situation stock seems to be low to empty in the some places I shop in the USA and restocking time is 6-10 weeks. Which is fine because I can't travel for another few weeks any way. Even B&W and Heliopan have wait times on their sites as well.

I have had some issues with aluminum rings with them getting stuck. So getting filters that made of brass does make plenty of sense. 

I do remember when one was using film that I did prefer yellow and orange over red or green.

It will be interesting learning curve if there is one to learn differences how digital reacts using B&W filter as apposed to film.

 

 

[setuporg]

I've obtained Leica's green, orange and yellow 39mm for my APO Summicron 50s, and they look great although I've not considered they are aluminum, not bronze.  Why would Leica do that?  Are they confident the filters will not get stuck to the lenses?  At least I assume they'd take care of separating them if I got both from the same Leica store...:). I also wonder whether the cult of bronze is warranted given how that Leica makes its own.  I don't change them often, the one I had on the APO was a UV from Leica and it was easy to take off after a year and a half on.

[ru2far2c]

Using aluminum step up/down ring I've learn that I have to be careful how much it was tightened to the lens and filter to adaptor. They would get stuck or hard to separate. Discovered this when using ND filters and adaptors and M lenses.

The last time I left a filter of any kind on M lens for any length of time was when I owned a M 8 using IR filters.

So I am still debating with myself about one filter one lens or one filter and step up/down rings multiply lenses. Have three fifty's and they are all different sizes. 

[jaapv]

On 5/8/2020 at 2:57 AM, setuporg said:

I've obtained Leica's green, orange and yellow 39mm for my APO Summicron 50s, and they look great although I've not considered they are aluminum, not bronze.  Why would Leica do that?  Are they confident the filters will not get stuck to the lenses?  At least I assume they'd take care of separating them if I got both from the same Leica store...:). I also wonder whether the cult of bronze is warranted given how that Leica makes its own.  I don't change them often, the one I had on the APO was a UV from Leica and it was easy to take off after a year and a half on.

Leica filters are not made by Leica, just rebranded. I prefer the higher quality B+W or Heliopan filters; brass rings and better coatings. And more affordable.

[jaapv]

On 5/7/2020 at 11:50 PM, ru2far2c said:

I have been looking into B&W and Heliopan new and used. Unfortunately with the current global situation stock seems to be low to empty in the some places I shop in the USA and restocking time is 6-10 weeks. Which is fine because I can't travel for another few weeks any way. Even B&W and Heliopan have wait times on their sites as well.

I have had some issues with aluminum rings with them getting stuck. So getting filters that made of brass does make plenty of sense. 

I do remember when one was using film that I did prefer yellow and orange over red or green.

It will be interesting learning curve if there is one to learn differences how digital reacts using B&W filter as apposed to film.

 

 

Actually,  they react mostly the same on a monochrome sensor as they do on film. Leica took the tonal scale of Delta as a reference for their sensors, so that is the film you should equate to.

[davidmknoble]

11 hours ago, jaapv said:

Actually,  they react mostly the same on a monochrome sensor as they do on film. Leica took the tonal scale of Delta as a reference for their sensors, so that is the film you should equate to.

I thought the tonal scale of Kodak Tri-X was used?  Don't know for sure....

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

They used Delta for the MM1, maybe they switched for later versions.