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Projector Fettling and adjustment P2000 P2002 Looking for help please


fergch

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Hi

Not sure where to place this post to get some advice please.

I am reviewing a slide collection, and have acquired Leica Projectors P2002 and P2000 and have found they need some adjustment, possibly through rough transport by courier in delivery (one was very badly packed). The collection is a mixture of Standard trays and mostly LKM trays and I have found the following problems:

Using the standard slide trays all seems good and fault free.

Using high capacity LKM slide trays causes problems, particularly the P2002 (the one badly treated in transportation).

Here is what happens:

First problem was the LKM tray failing to advance on the slide change...it just stays where it is and no change occurs.

Second problem was the slide sticking in the tray, and failing to be pushed into the slide gate of the projector. A nudge of the slide transport arm does work to get the slide moving, so I am suspecting the force pulling the arm into the slide gate is not enough to get the slide moving past the lugs at the top of the tray (that hold the slide in place in the tray). It seems the arm slightly widens the gap in the tray as it moves across the tray and so leaves a wider gap for the slide to pass the small lugs that are the anti-spill part of the tray, but there is no adjustment apart from ensuring the arm enters the exact centre of the gap between the walls of the tray.

Third problem is when, usually in the last third of the tray, there is a collision of the returning slide into the slot from whence it came, where it seems the tray has not advanced to the exact position where the gap for the slide is properly aligned (- maybe something to do with the lack of advance of the tray first mentioned).

I have had a look for any adjustments that might sort these problems, and to start with I have been looking for something knocked out of alignment, oe even bent. There seems nothing obvious, and nothing bent that I can see. Although the mechanism is complex the basic principle of a set of wheels rotating on a single axis with various cam leavers performing the movements of the slide arm and advancing the slide tray seems a very robust, and reliable system. There seems not to be any particular places where adjustment could take place, and so far I have not touched anything, apart from lifting the plastic slide tray support to check if anything was trapped underneath to account for the lack of slide tray advance. Nothing was found, however on replacing the slide advance seems to have recovered and the LKM tray advances, tested with empty trays. Forward and Back working now.

Still jams though...

I am appealing for someone to assist and point me in the right direction to solve these problems please.

Apologies for the long-winded explanations...

Edited by fergch
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Very likely something got knocked out of adjustment. Is my recollection correct that some of the earlier projectors had an adjuster lever to change between LKM and standard trays? I don't know whether your projectors have such a device, and, if so, whether it's working OK? A friend of mine who used to do a very great deal of slide projection just didn't like using LKM trays, because everything seemed just a bit too critical for reliable use in his lectures.

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John

Thanks for the reply. There is a leaver that swings across to change the size of the end of the claw to allow for the change in the width of the slide tray slot for each slide, and this is working. I made some adjustment to ensure the arm (particularly the end of the claw) exactly moves through the centre of the individual slide slots in the slide tray. This does seem critical, and is a lot of trial and error in very small adjustments to get right. I think it is the best I can manage now.

Your friend has a point. The smaller size of the slots carrying the slides and the narrowness of the walls in the slide tray suggest very fine tolerance, and precise adjustment.

If it were not for the large stock of slides loaded in LKM trays, I would use the standard tray always. I think the move to LKM was prompted by widespread use of the Kodak Carousel carrying 120 slides in each tray being used on the lecture circuit, plus the security of the slides in the Carousel (and LKM) trays (have you ever spilt the slides from a standard tray!) lead Leitz to make the changes and adapt the design of the Pradovit, rather re-design the range. In the end Leitz took over the Zeiss projector works, delivering the P600. However the P600 is not such a good projector in many ways (particularly the autofocus in in the show stage and seen, rather than in the dark stage, of course unseen) and the different range of lenses likely built to a price rather than built regardless of price.

Do you know of any process to follow to get the adjustments right?

Leitz (Leica) must have managed to deliver the P2000 range with some reliability for use with LKM so there must be a process to follow to get this right.

I am looking for a service manual or service instructions if anyone knows where they can be sourced?

Thanks

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Further to this , I have distilled the problem to this:

The problem relates to LKM boxes, and the P2002 will not advance the slide tray.
The slide tray moves to slide slot one, and then refused to advance any more to slot two and so on.If I move the tray to the middle position for example and try from  there, the slide tray will not advance.

However if I reverse the direction the tray moves backwards one slot at a time right to the first slot and beyond. If I stop and try advance no good; if I carry on backwards, yes works. Sometimes it misses a slot I think.

I contacted Leica UK in Mayfair but they are unable to service, to quote "as the Pradovit series have been discontinued a long time ago, we do not have any spare part remaining and we are not able to carry out any service on the projectors any-more..."

I have a technical expertise, and am prepared to look at the problems and fix, however I would like some guidance please.

Can anyone supply the service manual please, the pages the Description of Function, Assembly Instructions, and Maintenance Instructions, Malfunctions and Tools, sections C, D, E, F and J, so I can investigate?

Can anyone suggest the remedy please?

ps the P2000 is mentioned as the projectors are similar I think.

 

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  • 1 year later...

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Jammed tray. Help? 

(Aside: may have a manual at home (sitting in a parking lot now).


Inherited a 2002 projector and tried using it last night. 

The tray became jammed (near the slide bar opening) and now won’t move forward or backward. 
It did move at first, but no more. 

How do I get the tray out? 
Please, help. 

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Hi

Is a slide stuck in the gate?

Is the the arm moving freely in and out of the gate?

The tray will not move when the arm in in the gate, and a jammed slide can hold the arm from moving.

The way to fix this may result in a damaged slide as you will have to tease the slide out with tweezers.

You will see more of the problem is you unscrew the the screw on the top of the casing and lift off the cover, and you will have acess to the slide changer and see the problem.

A bit more information will help please.

Kind regards

 

Edited by fergch
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fergch~
Took it to the Leica store this morning. Two problems.

1) Getting the tray free

2) the square mechanism, that moves the arm, is locked.

The called the main office in New Jersey, but everyone who worked on these  have all retired. 
 

So, I returned home and started unscrewing some screws, which looked attached to the tray holder. Sure enough, just enough to giggle the tray away! 

Alas, the problem really seems  to be the gear that moved the arm. It’s frozen.

Any ideas.

Oh, I posted previously under a different name, but I do have the P2002 manual. 
(My father only had Leicas, so getting this fixed means more than just having a slide projector.) 

 


 

 

 

 

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Are you not so kind to follow up? 
I took off the arm, before I unjammed the tray. Now, I think this square piece may have been the original problem. 

It won’t move. 

So, rather perplexed. 
Best…
 

 

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Something is not right as in the normal "rest" position the arm and the square plate should be at the other end of the slide, as we are looking down on the top, to the left side.

Clearly something is holding the arm and plate in the wrong position, and it may be the problem lies with the mechanism on the underside of the projector.

Here a little expertise is needed to understand the rather complex mechanism.

The long arm that connects the shaft at the front of the projector to the left of the lens looking down to the square plate on the slide change is just a pin connecting the arm to the square plastic plate (this is the one you unscrewed?). This is just flixable enough to gently lift enough to let the engaging pin clear the square plate (just a matter of three of four mm or so), at which point you can check if the plate will move along the two chrome rods that hold it in place (to the left side as in your photo), which will indicate if it is the slide change part  (the plate) that is jammed or if it is something on the underside.

What you find here depends on what to do next.

If you were to replace the top cover, and turn the projector upside down onto the top, there is a plastic bottom plate held with four phillips headed screws, different lengths on each side, and the plate can be lifted off to reveal the mechanism that is the main works (like the duck paddling like mad under the surface, while on the top side all seems calm and ordered!). Perhaps you could take a (some) pictures of this and I can make further comment. Best not to mess and force anything till we know what is possible.

By the way, have you had the projector plugged into the mains (making sure the voltage is set to meet your local mains, I am thinking you are in America?), and switched on to see if the mechanism re-sets. If you have done so and immediately there was a horrible loud rapid clicking (think machine gun!!) you must switch off immediately as that is the sound of a clutch mechanism working to prevent serious damage when there is a jam. However as these projectors are decades old the plastic claw that is part of this clutch mechanism is now rather brittle and prone to complete failure. This is disaster for the projector as spares are impossible to find, and require complex dismantling to replace.

Working at distance is tricky, so I hope you will understand if I make poor assumptions about your abilities.

Kind regards

 

 

 

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Should I have it plugged it? It worked previously, but wise to warn about voltage. ;) 

I can move the arm-connection mechanism a bit, but that’s all. 

It was working perfectly, in Virginia, at my father’s. 
Then, I changed his Leitz trays to some empty Leicas. I didn’t understand the two arm choices, so when I started it up in New York, it clicked twice, or so, then froze with the jammed tray. 
 

Would you be willing to connect with me via Zoom or FaceTime, or can I send you a video?

I believe my father was on the Leica International Forum…is this what we are on? 

 

 

 

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Here are photos of the bottom. 

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Hi

Thanks for the pictures, it looks as though nothing is out of place on the underside, and I think the problem is that two slides have collided in the gate and jammed the slide change part, the part where the square plate is, and that is why this part does not move across to the parked position on the left side of the projector (seen from the top in the first photo.

Do not switch on as this will invoke the clutch and lead to failure die to old age of the plastic components.

We can do a zoom and if we can wait for a day or so I can get a projector out here this end and use to illustrate what is needed to find the offending slides and remove them and see if further steps are necessary.

Dont know if this is possible but contact me at fgs at clara dot co dot uk and it may be better to use further discussion outside the forum.

Not sure if this is the International forum but I guess so, sounds as though you father is a great Leica enthusiast.

Thanks

 

Edited by fergch
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Hi

Well, we can only have a look at together.

I need a day or so to sort out the projector here, and we can do a zoom and see if there is more we can do, I hope it is a case of extracting the stuck slides from the gate.

One more thing, is the arm sticking out of the projector at the right side, over the tray position?

Is it possible to take a picture of the top or the projector (put the bottom back in place and fix the screws for the time being) please?

Was anything loose in the bottom that you noticed?

Thanks

 

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