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rpavich

Just got my M8, confused about frame lines

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I just took delivery of my M8 and the lens that I bought with it; a Voigtlander 40mm F/1.4 Nokton Classic. I set the camera up but I'm confused about the framelines. I was under the impression that I could set them manually if using a non-leica/coded lens. I understand that 40mm doesn't really correspond to anything like 28mm/35mm/50mm but I was just looking for something approximate. As it is, the default frame lines that come up aren't even close.

Is there a way to set them to say "50mm" or do I have to do a lens coding job on the lens itself?

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The frameline selection is made mechanically when you attach the lens to the body, and has nothing to do with the 6-bit code. You can override this briefly using the frameline selector switch at the right of the lens (looking from the front).

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The frame lines are in pairs.

28/90

50/75

35/135

If you mount a 40mm lens that has not been filed down or modified it should bring up the 50/75mm framelines.

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Posted (edited)

The Leica M8 shows frame lines for 6 different focal length lenses, in pairs, as follows: 24 & 35; 50 & 75; 28 & 90. No frames for 135. This is shown on page 103 of the instruction manual.

Edited by Lux50
Forgot a couple words at end of sentence

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Thanks guys.

It does switch frame lines when I mount the lens but the two sets (I'm assuming it's 50/75) are much smaller than the resulting field of view. I think I'll just send this lens back and use the 28mm Elmarit that roughly corresponds to the 35mm frame lines.

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Welcome to an M viewfinder, I too received my M8 with 40 Nokton, I think it was the only lens ever on the camera. I thought about filing down the part that controls the frame lines, but too much of a chance screwing up the framelines. You do get used to the framelines, and the 50 is a little small on an M8, it is actually a 53mm lens while the 50 framelines are 64.x so you have to look outside 50 lines. Comes natural after a while, I mostly use a 35mm and 25mm on the camera, the 24mm framelines are almost invisible when wearing glasses. The M8 is a fun camera.

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1 minute ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

Welcome to an M viewfinder, I too received my M8 with 40 Nokton, I think it was the only lens ever on the camera. I thought about filing down the part that controls the frame lines, but too much of a chance screwing up the framelines. You do get used to the framelines, and the 50 is a little small on an M8, it is actually a 53mm lens while the 50 framelines are 64.x so you have to look outside 50 lines. Comes natural after a while, I mostly use a 35mm and 25mm on the camera, the 24mm framelines are almost invisible when wearing glasses. The M8 is a fun camera.

You're right. After messing with it for a while I sort of got used to how much to look outside the framelines. I do like the lens and the camera is growing on me, I haven't used a rangefinder since I had to sell my M6 several years ago and I forgot a lot of what I knew.

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On the M8 the framelines are set to give you the mounted lens field of view at a certain distance taking the sensor size into account. I forget what that distance is but it’s in the manual.

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Posted (edited)

The original M8 frames lines are optimized for viewing at .7m.  The M8.2 changed this to 2m.  Leica offered an upgrade to modify the M8 frame lines to 2m (separately or together with upgrades to the shutter and sapphire screen). At other distances, one needs to estimate the framing inside or outside the lines.

As noted, a 28mm lens will bring up 28 framelines; 50mm will bring up 50, etc.  It’s just that the field of view is (automatically) cropped by a factor of 1.33x.

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S

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37 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The original M8 frames lines are optimized for viewing at .7m.  The M8.2 changed this to 2m.  Leica offered an upgrade to modify the M8 frame lines to 2m (separately or together with upgrades to the shutter and sapphire screen). At other distances, one needs to estimate the framing inside or outside the lines.

As noted, a 28mm lens will bring up 28 framelines; 50mm will bring up 50, etc.  It’s just that the field of view is (automatically) cropped by a factor of 1.33x.

Jeff

Not necessarily. The framelines correspond to the shortest focus distance of each lens. In other words if you mounted a 90mm lens with a close focus distance of 1 meter that is where the framelines are accurate. If the close focus was .7 meters the framelines are accurate at that distance.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jdlaing said:

On the M8 the framelines are set to give you the mounted lens field of view at a certain distance taking the sensor size into account. I forget what that distance is but it’s in the manual.

For general explanation, I prefer my commentary, thanks.  

Further, the M9 frame lines are optimized at 1m; the M240 and M10 at 2m.

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S

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Posted (edited)

The Voigtlander 40mm F/1.4 Nokton Classic is by default set to bring up the Leica 50mm framelines rather than the 35mm framelines - the choice had to be made of course because Leica does not have 40mm framelines as I am sure from your post, you understand. I suppose they did this because it is better in theory to have a little more in your photo than you expected when you take the photo, than to have a little less (and run the risk of cutting heads off etc). But I find that as might be expected, the 35mm framelines are closer to the 40mm field of view of the lens being only 5mm off (not sure what this represents in degrees of angle but it's tiny in practice). 

I have since sold my Nokton classic (mainly because I had a chance to buy a nice Voigtlander 35mm f1.2 and developed G.A.S. for it) but when I had it my solution was simple - to check framing I simply used the frame selector lever, flicked it to the 35mm/28mm position and checked how my framing corresponds to the 35mm lines. Believe me the 35mm framing is so close to 40mm field of view it is hardly noticeable. I still do something of this sort for another lens I own - the Leica Summaron 35mm f3.5 which in its earlier M mount form  was designed for the M3 and hence brings up the 50mm framelines on any M camera instead of 35mm (the M3 lacks 35mm framelines). When mounted on my M8, a small movement of my left hand index finger fixes the problem and its become a habit to use the camera this way when that lens is mounted. 

Edited by peterm1_Leica

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Posted (edited)

I never thought about that. So the frame lines are not adjusted to the conversion factor of 1.33x? A 35mm lens will bring 35mm frame lines regardless of the 46.5mm actual field of view?

Edited by rivi1969

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4 minutes ago, rivi1969 said:

I never thought about that. So the frame lines are not adjusted to the conversion factor of 1.33x? A 35mm lens will bring 35mm frame lines regardless of the 46.5mm actual field of view?

The field of view IS adjusted to reflect the smaller, cropped sensor. One needn’t do any calculation; just view the scene.  The frame lines correspond to the focal length used; the focal length of the lens remains constant, on any format.  The resultant pic is the same as one taken with the same lens (from the same location) on ‘full frame’ like other digital M’s, but cropped in post. So, a 28mm lens, but with roughly the field of view from a 35mm lens, despite using the 28mm frame lines.

Jeff

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59 minutes ago, rivi1969 said:

I never thought about that. So the frame lines are not adjusted to the conversion factor of 1.33x? A 35mm lens will bring 35mm frame lines regardless of the 46.5mm actual field of view?

Yes.

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6 hours ago, rivi1969 said:

I never thought about that. So the frame lines are not adjusted to the conversion factor of 1.33x? A 35mm lens will bring 35mm frame lines regardless of the 46.5mm actual field of view?

The 35mm frame lines on an M8 reflect the 1.33 crop factor of the M8.  Just shoot away. But I find that the frame lines are in any event only an estimation - at minimum focusing distance for example I do not think they are exactly accurate but then again this is not an SLR.  In fact I find that its a limitation of the M8 - the view through the finder is discouragingly small and pokey compared to say an M3. 

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vor 14 Stunden schrieb rpavich:

....a Voigtlander 40mm F/1.4 Nokton Classic.

Why do you bought a 40mm? If you are not happy with it/framelines buy a 35mm or 50mm!

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vor 16 Minuten schrieb peterm1_Leica:

The 35mm frame lines on an M8 reflect the 1.33 crop factor of the M8.  Just shoot away. But I find that the frame lines are in any event only an estimation - at minimum focusing distance for example I do not think they are exactly accurate but then again this is not an SLR.  In fact I find that its a limitation of the M8 - the view through the finder is discouragingly small and pokey compared to say an M3. 

Since when are SLR viewfinders accurate? Most of them show something between 92% and 97%. Only the really expensive ones offer 100% view. So with most SLRs there is slightly more on the frame compared to what you see in the viewfinder.

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