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I want to buy a M8: Any tips?


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Hi all, 

I decided to buy an old M8 as my first digital Leica. :)

I want the CCD sensor, I considered also to get an M9, but basically for b&w photography, I see not so much advantage to pay more than double for the M9 with the sensor changed already. And I may make use of the M8 for IR stuff.

There is one in my town with 11.000 shutter counts for 1000EUR with 2 lenses (7 artisans 50mm f1.1 and Voigtlander 25mm f4, that brings the body down to 500EUR, almost too cheap) and another one with 3200 shutter counts for 1200EUR with one lens (Voigtlander 35mm f2.5 Skopar, which brings down the body to 900EUR let's say). Both are quite low counts, but I see that people have experienced shutter issues with shutter counts as low as 15.000. Considering that people don't report issues unless they have them, I would suppose that the one with 11.000 shutter count should have pretty much life left, I see many people use their M8 with over 100.000 count without issues.  Am I correct or should I pay 300-400EUR more for the one with 3200 counts? 

 

And anything else I should be aware of or be careful when buying an old M8?

 

Thanks for your advice!

 

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Welcome,

As old M8+IR pix lover (still use sometimes), I only have to say, the filter diameter is one of consideration.

I can't use most of my lenses for M8+IR pix because I have very limited IR pass filter (only in E39, E52 ), I can usestep-un /down rings but not practical at all.

Shutter count can be in equation but (for me of course) every M8 can have shutter fault and this change it to "no-camera" for repair cost (about 1.000€).

https://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/leica_m8.htm

 

have a look in this thread

my comment #9

Sorry not to be able helping in your choice.

Edited by a.noctilux
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I would want to find out more about both these M8s before proceeding any further. Are they one owner cameras? Have they been well looked after? Do they come with all the bits in the box as supplied new? Have either had any issues eg shutter replacement? Assuming they are private sales there will be no warranty of course, but have you at least got a return option if not satisfied?

The more expensive camera sounds better to me, in part due to lower use but also because I would prefer the 35mm Skopar as a lens to use.

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The M8 is a very durable camera. What I heard from a dealer, the display is a problem when it is no longer working. My M8 is still working fine. It actually survived my MM that I bought new and that died of lens cancer. I bought the M8 secondhand, though :)

Edited by Arrow
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As James24 says what do the cameras come with in terms of original accessories / straps / chargers / batteries / instruction manuals / boxes etc?

What are their respective general conditions, roughly? How clean are the sensors and are there any scratches to be seen? Check carefully!

Are they both M8s or is either an M8.2? The latter carries a price-premium and is more sought-after for quite a number of reasons.

Allowing for the 1.33 crop factor the first has (effectively) a 65mm and a 35mm whereas the second has (effectively) a 50mm. A word of warning; The 7A 50 f1.1 is a great lens(*) but only if it is well-matched to the body at both close- and far-focus and at all apertures in both situations!  I would strongly advise checking-out these capabilities as the 7A can be an absolute nightmare to calibrate; I own a pair of them myself and I speak from my own well-won experience.

It might also be the case that the body has been matched to this lens; it is vital that you check out both lenses with this package! Get a 'returns' agreement should you have concerns in the 'focus' department.

Apart from that? With the M8 some bodies had a problem with the rear screen not displaying properly / at all. Easy to check.

With Leica 'Condition is All' is a fair maxim. If the body is in good condition it will be worth considerably more and might have been treated better by its former owner/s. Originality is also worth a premium over a 'modified' body - even if it's just the substitution of the red dot for an aftermarket black one.

Take your time in assessing the offered cameras on their individual merits. Do not rush in to things.

The 8 is a great body. I picked up an M8.2 as my first digi-M and absolutely loved it.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Philip.

Edited by pippy
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You need to check the rear LCD for 'coffee stain', which just looks as though coffee has been poured on the LCD and left a stain around the edges but is actually very fine dust that has made its way between the LCD and the covering glass and indicates a sealing problem.  Sometimes the LCD goes on to fail completely and then your M8 is a brick because there are no spare LCD's available for repairs or swap-outs.  You're M8 will still function without the LCD but you won't be able to see the menus so, for example, formatting the SD card, changing ISO, and changing from DNG to jpg capture will be difficult.

Sometimes coffee stain just disappears over time and the LCD appears as it always has so if either of the cameras has coffee stain you need to consider whether it's worth the risk or whether to pass and look for another. 

Pete.

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Ask for some shoots of high ISO. Check for dead, stuck pixels which also known to cos vertical line/s. Also check alignment, is a 10+ year old range finder after all. Both can be fixed but is added cost and time. I personally look for a later production year (2008) too as you never know what little internal components/tolerance improvements made against early ones.

Look beyond the milage, i.e I can't stand having a scratched up display, condition, fullset with box etc which will impact it's resale value when you come to re sell.

Serial numbers - https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M8

Edited by Gavbo
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I missed a couple at dealers, and bought one with a hope and a prayer on E**y, came with a 1/2 case and a 40mm f 1.4 Nokton, which is a little bit of an annoying lens on this camera (activates the 50mm framelines which are small on an M8 and has a slight focus shift between f2.8 and f4). It also looks like that was the only lens on the camera as the frameline lever was stiff. The one other problem with the M8 is it has to go to Leica for repairs, even for a stiff frameline lever, this is according to Youxin Yee and DAG. But the camera has been working flawlessly, I have been using a 35 Summilux and a 25mm Canon on it mostly, the frameline lever is working itself out. I have used the 40 sparingly, mostly on an M3. Oh the other interesting thing about the camera is that it was purchased in Mexico, so the manual is in Italian and Spanish.

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  • 3 months later...

I bought one a year or so ago, primarily to take IR pics.

The camera itself has had heavy wear, but everything seems to work OK so only cosmetic worries there.

When buying for IR make sure you have an early model. If the vendor is offering the IR cut filters that Leica gave to those customers who had problems then you know that the sensor is "naked", i.e.has no IR cut screen over it. Just about every digital camera has such a screen, thus thwarting the ability to take IR pics.This includes the later M8s and the M-8.2 I believe.

I bought a Zeiss 25mm biogen for it. One nice feature of that lens is that on the distance grating there is a red line. This shows you the offset required to focus the IR.

And yes, the IR pics work well. Just need a better photographer.

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3 hours ago, LCL999 said:

When buying for IR make sure you have an early model. If the vendor is offering the IR cut filters that Leica gave to those customers who had problems then you know that the sensor is "naked", i.e.has no IR cut screen over it. Just about every digital camera has such a screen, thus thwarting the ability to take IR pics.This includes the later M8s and the M-8.2 I believe.

Hi, LCL999,

Just to let you know, all M8's and M8.2's had/have the IR-reducing cover glass over the sensor but it has to be very thin owing to the short M-mount flange to focal plane distance (27.8 mm) so it's not a very powerful filter and some IR gets through to the sensor, which is of benefit to those of us who like to shoot IR of course.  

I have not heard of later M8's or M8.2's shipping from Leica with a different filter and the M8 I have now is a late model and shoots IR as well as my early batch M8 did.  All M8's and M8.2's  were sold with the opportunity to acquire 2 free UV/IR lens filters in the filter diameter of choice from Leica by registering the camera and applying through Leica's website.

Pete.

Edited by farnz
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5 hours ago, LCL999 said:

 

When buying for IR make sure you have an early model. If the vendor is offering the IR cut filters that Leica gave to those customers who had problems then you know that the sensor is "naked", i.e.has no IR cut screen over it. Just about every digital camera has such a screen, thus thwarting the ability to take IR pics.This includes the later M8s and the M-8.2 I believe.

I would be very interested if you could supply a supporting link or source for that statement, there is no history I am aware of for the IR filter on the M8 or M8.2 being changed during its production cycle.

The offer of free IR external filters which Leica offered applies to the whole range of the M8 cameras, if you purchase even now a camera that has not had that offer redeemed I understand Leica will honour the offer. Some still prefer to use external filters on the M9 so the offer of filters or not with a S/H M8 is not a guide to any presence or absence of a sensor filter.

The M8.2 changed the shutter to one with maximum shutter speed of 1/4000sec, added a Sapphire glass LCD cover and more accurate bright line frames, all three or a selection requested were available on the original M8 as factory "upgrades". The M8.2 also had cosmetic changes, there were no changes announced in the sensor filter.

The M8 series have an 0.5 mm thick IR filter that is about 50% effective overall (it varies across the range, see below) the M9 a 0.8 mm of the same glass which is about 90% effective. The trade off is the thicker filter means that as different wavelengths of light are affected differently by the IR filter depth so the M8 at pixel level appears sharper, it resolves better, the effect though is relatively slight and the downside is it is more prone to moire. The filter is Kyocera BS7 glass which is relatively less efficient for a given thickness than more recent products and actually thinner glass that was more efficient was in use by eg Nikon even at the time of the M8, around 0.3mm, but their AA filters bulked up the total filter pack thickness. The other issue is the filtration range of the BS7, it is very inefficient blocking IR in the 1000 to 1200 nm range but much better in the 700 to 1000nm range. 

 The other minor point is the absence of a red IR index mark, focus offset, does not necessarily mean the lens cannot be focussed for IR work, APO corrected lenses, if the manufacturer uses the term correctly, do not require correction a good example for the Leica is the 90mm f3.5 Apo-Lanthar.

I am delighted the M8 is working well for you. 

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