What's next for Leica APS-C cameras?

[DanielJr]

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I've been wondering where will Leica will go from here on out. I refuse to buy the CL because I was sure they were going to stick with TL design and add a EVF. The CL is ugly to me. I would love a Foven Leica TL3. 

[wda]

Since you know what you want, it is simply a case of watching and waiting and seeing what Leica produces. Our discussions are unlikely to influence their design decisions.

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[DanielJr]

26 minutes ago, wda said:

Since you know what you want, it is simply a case of watching and waiting and seeing what Leica produces. Our discussions are unlikely to influence their design decisions.

You never know we are the buyers. You don't think we have voice in their decision making process. 

[bags27]

1 hour ago, DanielJr said:

I've been wondering where will Leica will go from here on out. I refuse to buy the CL because I was sure they were going to stick with TL design and add a EVF. The CL is ugly to me. I would love a Foven Leica TL3. 

That's just not going to happen. Sigma has announced that it is postponing indefinitely development of its Foveon FF for the L mount, so I can't believe it will develop a new Foveon for the CL/TL. Plus, the sensor is usually thought of for landscape/architecture, a speciality far too narrow for the already tiny CL/TL market.

[wda]

51 minutes ago, DanielJr said:

You never know we are the buyers. You don't think we have voice in their decision making process. 

Very little.

[jaapv]

19 minutes ago, wda said:

Very little.

If we don't buy there is little point in designing...

[jaapv]

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2 hours ago, DanielJr said:

I've been wondering where will Leica will go from here on out. I refuse to buy the CL because I was sure they were going to stick with TL design and add a EVF. The CL is ugly to me. I would love a Foven Leica TL3. 

That is not going to happen. I am not even sure that there will be a TL3...

[Digitom]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb wda:

Very little.

Well, I do not think so. Let me say "little" 🙂.  If many people dislike a special design and refuse it Leica will sure not go on a one way street. I think they look very carefully about the features and design. Because it is - compared to others - a very small company. If a camera is not successful, or widely not accepted, it can be a problem for Leica.

So they sure hear what the users are talking about, but they also know that a taste can change quickly. The evolute more then revolute^^

Only one thing they will - IMHO - never ever do: bring something out with possibility to ust M lenses and focussing with Focus peaking, no crop, no adapter, I mean an M without Rangefinder. That woul cannibalize the M System. Today when you wanna stay in the lica universe, and use M lenses without any compromize you have to live with rangefinder camera - the M.

If someone does not like (like me) rangefinders and likes more focus peaking with an EVF built in, you have to ue SL or -if wanna be small- the CL. And accept other negatives (bulky or crop).
 

[Digitom]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

That is not going to happen. I am not even sure that there will be a TL3...

Maybe the (here called ugly) CL ist more successful then TL/TL2? Because it is more a "normal camera" when looking at the interface? I also like these old style cameras, but sure there is a market especially for the younger people for new interfaces in times of smartphones...

[jaapv]

It is more of a photographer’s tool. I grab the TL which I really appreciate, for casual use, but the CL comes out for serious photography, in tandem with my M-s of course. 

[wda]

1 hour ago, DanielJr said:

You never know we are the buyers. You don't think we have voice in their decision making process. 

I think you should consider presenting your ideas directly to Leica, thereby simplifying its transmission. My doubt is based on countless threads like this one which have had very little influence on  Leica's design philosophy.

[robgo2]

In the interest of providing a concrete answer to the OP, I think that Leica's next APS-C offering will be a CL2.  It will probably have a higher MP count and IBIS. The timing of its release is made uncertain by the Covid-19 pandemic.  Like most other industries, camera and lens manufacturers are going to take a BIG hit.

Edited April 13, 2020 by robgo2

[nicci78]

Some can think that CL is ugly and TL are beautiful. 
But I think that CL design is awesome and functional. 
When TL one, even being nice to look at, is not functional enough : slippery body, no buttons, etc... 

TL design is a dead end. Made by an automobile company (Audi) with no real experience about cameras. It remembered me of Marc Newson’s ugly camera : the Pentax K-01. Too weird, no EVF and not functional enough as a camera.
Of course TL is s as beautiful as K-01 is ugly. But in both case, they do not have enough cameraness to be successful. 
 

By the way, I really think that TL cameras series are quite cheaply made. 
Just look at adjustments, especially around the lens mount.
The softness of the aluminium chosen, that can dent easily around the neck strap connectors.
The awful choice of sticky silicon strap. The stupidly designed accessories : snap case and leather case. 

I was impressed first, then look at the details and start to be disappointed quickly. Really just compare it to any Apple unibody MacBooks and you will be disappointed by Leica use of CNC aluminium. 

 

 

[M11 for me]

I love the CL design. I actually strongly believe in a CL2. How do I know? I especialy wrote that I "believe". Not to create more misunderstanding.

On the other hand the CL is a very expensive camera (too expensive). its not competitive in the APS-C market. I assume that it is often bought together with a Hermes bag (always wear a camera). Its not an M and not a Q. Possibly the corona sets an end to it.

Edited April 14, 2020 by M10 for me

[Einst_Stein]

12 hours ago, DanielJr said:

I've been wondering where will Leica will go from here on out. I refuse to buy the CL because I was sure they were going to stick with TL design and add a EVF. The CL is ugly to me. I would love a Foven Leica TL3. 

TL has no button, so it is very hard to use without seeing the back display. This makes the EVF only a secondary support.

I once thought the lack of. Built in EVF was due to the space limitation, but now I think once Leica add it, people will Cry for the buttons.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Einst_Stein

[Marac]

Personally I think the TL line has reached the end, interesting looking machine, I own the T but had mine converted to Infrared, great decision IMHO perfect for the job. I have mine in a full leather case so it's easier to hold, could do with a thumby really.

My CL with it's so called limited lens line is my main camera for general use (although I do now have an S1R too), the design and functionality of the CL is way ahead of the TL range IMO, it is a camera that has managed to stay in my camera bag for years and that's a new world record for me, I love the way it sits in my hand, I love the EVF, the weight and especially I love the fact that I do not need to carry a bunch of lenses around either, I use the 11-23/35/55-135 (that 55-135 is actually growing on me.) That covers everything I need and fits nicely (with the IR T) into a small Billingham.

I agree the next APS-C camera from Leica is likely to be a CL2 with IBIS, maybe more MP but 24 is the norm now I think especially for the crop sensor.

I also have some Sigma L mount lenses that will work on the CL but I tend to use it the other way around and put the Leica CL lenses on the S1R with fantastic results. The best lens from Sigma for the CL IMO is the tiny 45mm, I also own the 14-24 f2.8 that is fine on the CL but amazing on the S1R

Anyway, I'm babbling off track, stay safe everyone.

[Marac]

Just found this photo and it reminded me about how I butchered the original sticky strap and put the leather Leica one on instead. After you cut the rubber from around the lugs you can easily fit a standard strap and be done with the awful sticky strap.

Might be helpful to some people so I posted

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[jaapv]

You can get standard eyelets.

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Some can think that CL is ugly and TL are beautiful. 
But I think that CL design is awesome and functional. 
When TL one, even being nice to look at, is not functional enough : slippery body, no buttons, etc... 

TL design is a dead end. Made by an automobile company (Audi) with no real experience about cameras. It remembered me of Marc Newson’s ugly camera : the Pentax K-01. Too weird, no EVF and not functional enough as a camera.
Of course TL is s as beautiful as K-01 is ugly. But in both case, they do not have enough cameraness to be successful. 
 

By the way, I really think that TL cameras series are quite cheaply made. 
Just look at adjustments, especially around the lens mount.
The softness of the aluminium chosen, that can dent easily around the neck strap connectors.
The awful choice of sticky silicon strap. The stupidly designed accessories : snap case and leather case. 

I was impressed first, then look at the details and start to be disappointed quickly. Really just compare it to any Apple unibody MacBooks and you will be disappointed by Leica use of CNC aluminium. 

 

 

Made by Audi?  You are a bit confused...  Audi, like Porsche Design, provides many industrial companies with design services. They are responsible for the esthetics (or lack thereof  of the Leica C and M9 Titanium. But they do not make cameras, I can assure you.
 Of course Leica will use outside design services. Not only for esthetics. The production line for the Summarit lenses was evolved with Porsche.
I cannot agree that the TL cameras are cheaply made - I find rather the opposite. Compared to my Macbooks they dent less and they do not shed little screws...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Marac]

15 minutes ago, jaapv said:

You can get standard eyelets.

Yes I know but I chose to cut the original strap up because they want £60 for the eyelets and my old T is not worth spending any money on, some may feel the same, some may wish to buy eyelets, many choices.